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Question about lapels - Pad Stitching (no advices)


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#1 Lo Zingaro

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 10:47 PM

Hello guys!
I'm quite new here...first I would like to say: please forgive my english, I'm Italian!

I have a question:

I have some bespoke suits cut from two different tailors. One is from Milan, and the other one from Trani, Apulia.
The suit from Milan's tailor is cut with a lot of cotton pads on the shoulders, and is more "military", while the other one is cut softer, in the Neapolitan style, and has no cotton on shoulders at all, "manica camicia" and stuff that we all know and love.

Beside that, I noticed that the coat cut from the Milan tailor has a strong work of pad stitching that clearly hits the eye if you turn the lapel. You can even feel all the stitches if you pass your hand under the lapel.

The other coat, even if I have done the classic 3 tries, and I have seen the coat "under construction" with all the pad stitching done on the lapel, the "naked lapel" with the canvass exposed with EVIDENT handmade pad stitching, has NO pad stitching visibile at all when the coat is ready. You can hardly see some stitches from the back of the lapel... I even pinched the lapels when the coat was finished and it reacted correcty, I mean i could feel there was no thermoadesive fusibile (didn't hear the tear, I did on some RTW jackets I have).

So what do you think?

I hope I expressed this question clearly...

Yours,

Zingaro.

#2 Schneidergott

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 11:36 PM

I have seen something similar a while back.
I think it's a matter of the thread used for the pad stitching.
I guess your Southern tailor used a finer thread, while the one up North used a thicker one (buttonhole silk) and therefore caused the stitches to be more visible. Plus he may have made wider and deeper stitches.
While some people like to show that their lapels are hand padded, I'd prefer the discrete version.

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#3 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 12:28 AM

The art is that you don't see the pad stitches but you see the imprint. Today we have thread that is fine like a hair and we have fusible under 30g/qm. You can't find out if he fused the part of the labels in order to hide the pick stitches. Tailors in Germany did that since 1930 and it was never wrong. It is not possible to rip of a hand pick stitched lapel from the fusible cause you still grab the fabric a little and there is a high density of stitches.

So you see the tailor where you donít see the stitches is a finer tailor with or without fused lapels.
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#4 jukes

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 12:32 AM

Can you see the pad stitching on the back of the collar ??

#5 Lo Zingaro

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 12:42 AM

So you see the tailor where you donít see the stitches is a finer tailor with or without fused lapels.


By fused lapels you mean "with termoedhesive fabric" or "with canvass/hair" ?

I didn't get the point of your statement sorry! :Big Grin:

#6 Lo Zingaro

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 12:44 AM

Can you see the pad stitching on the back of the collar ??


I don't remember (I'm at work now) if it does show on the finished coat, but I remember I saw the collar with all the stitching when I was doing the 2nd try. I'll check when at home!

#7 Lo Zingaro

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 12:44 AM

Ah, when i'll be at home I'll post some photos!

#8 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 10:13 AM

By fused lapels you mean "with termoedhesive fabric" or "with canvass/hair" ?

I didn't get the point of your statement sorry! :Big Grin:


with termoedhesive and then pick stitch through the canvas
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#9 Lo Zingaro

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 08:08 PM

with termoedhesive and then pick stitch through the canvas


Ah, no, I forbid my South tailor to use any type of termoedhesive fusible. I didn't used it anyway, because he's old and he does all work "the old way" which means with no "tricks" like that.
I'll try to upload some photos I did few minutes ago, but I believe you won't see much, because I's very hard to see on photo.
I'll explain what I just noticed : while the Milanese has evident pad stitching, the Southern seems to have "areas" in which the pad stitching is more "dense" and some areas in which there is half the pad stitching the North tailor has. I'll explain. If you imagine the lapel of my jacket being a triangle (the 2 jackets are both double breasted) while the Milanese has the entire area of the triangle evenly covered with stitches, the Southern works harder on the border where the lapel connects to the body of the coat, up near the buttonhole area, and down in the last corner which is, I can say, err...close to the end of the lapel. It seems he works on the perimeter and the adiacent area of this triangle, while in the center the stitching is rarefied.

I really don't know what to think!
I am really satisfied with the results of this tailor, this is the main problem. But I am thinking: "what if the jacket is good outside while inside is poorly made??"

Discuss!!


Yours,

Zingaro

#10 Lo Zingaro

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 08:12 PM

This is the Milanese lapel

http://imageshack.us.../dscf0452z.jpg/

As you can see it has a very fine and even pad stitching

Edited by Lo Zingaro, 21 January 2012 - 08:22 PM.


#11 Lo Zingaro

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 08:24 PM

This is the Southern. The Jacket is 9 ounces Zegna's Linen. It has no lining. For hot Italian summers!

http://imageshack.us.../dscf0456u.jpg/


As you see it's hardly noticeable any stitch!

#12 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 01:36 AM

How much did you pay for your bespoke coats? This might explain your problem.
www.berlinbespokesuits.com

#13 Schneidergott

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:04 AM

I don't think your Southern tailor did a bad job. If you want to make a soft, light coat you need to keep the lapels soft, too.
The fact, that you cannot feel or see anything and the lapel still has a good shape is a sign of experience and fine skill. Even more so since he probably managed to achieve that without fusing .

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#14 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:23 AM

I don't think your Southern tailor did a bad job. If you want to make a soft, light coat you need to keep the lapels soft, too.
The fact, that you cannot feel or see anything and the lapel still has a good shape is a sign of experience and fine skill. Even more so since he probably managed to achieve that without fusing .


Very right, even for the light fabric. You probably paid 500Euro for your coats, I guess.
www.berlinbespokesuits.com

#15 Lo Zingaro

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:13 AM

Very right, even for the light fabric. You probably paid 500Euro for your coats, I guess.


For the first one, i paid 800€, the second one 500€.
North tailor pricelist is 800€ jacket + 300 pants but you have to bring your cloth, the south is 500 jacket + 180 pant still you have to bring your stuff.

Do they do a bad job? Am I supposed to think that I have payed too much for that?

Consider that Bespoke is more common in south Italy and since many do bespoke it's not so expensive. Many high end neapolitan tailors cut a suit for 1300€.

Of course you get what you pay for...

Edited by Lo Zingaro, 22 January 2012 - 03:20 AM.


#16 Lo Zingaro

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:17 AM

How much did you pay for your bespoke coats? This might explain your problem.



Der Zuschneider, is it really a problem? The coats fit and look well...

Just asking myself why this is happening.

#17 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:47 AM

That is what I expected. You got a good deal for your little money. In Germany the prices start at 2500Euro - 4000Euro.
You shouldn't complain. Many German welfare wanabe's go to Italy and order suits cause it is so cheap. They even organize complete rides.

What is happening anyway? If your suits look well leave the pick stitches alone and be happy. Who cares if he uses fuses or not.
If you pay 500 for a coat your lips in front of the tailor should be closed like a grave and let the tailor do his mercy on you.

The cheaper the suits the more overbearing customers of wannabe forums shows up at those places.
Donít be offended. I am the monster of the forum.
www.berlinbespokesuits.com

#18 Lo Zingaro

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 04:01 AM

That is what I expected. You got a good deal for your little money. In Germany the prices start at 2500Euro - 4000Euro.
You shouldn't complain. Many German welfare wanabe's go to Italy and order suits cause it is so cheap. They even organize complete rides.

What is happening anyway? If your suits look well leave the pick stitches alone and be happy. Who cares if he uses fuses or not.
If you pay 500 for a coat your lips in front of the tailor should be closed like a grave and let the tailor do his mercy on you.

The cheaper the suits the more overbearing customers of wannabe forums shows up at those places.
Donít be offended. I am the monster of the forum.


Nah, I'm not that kind of guy, I am very friendly with the tailor, I spend just few words to tell him what I want. He works at home so I even got to know his family :)
As a matter of fact, I just wanted to know those differences because I am curious.
Sice with little less more I can get a good suit here in Italy, I just wondered if it's a good idea to change tailor, even if I'm satisfied. I want sometig built to last, not only pleasant to the eye.
I want to get attached to things.

What would you do in my place?




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