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Trouser Making - Ironwork


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#19 Sator

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 11:30 AM

But what about those more rigid fabrics, those firm Frescos and Twills which may not allow that much shaping?


The Schneidermeister recommends that you pass the iron on an angle (Schraegzug) to make use of the stretchability of the cloth on the bias. They say pull hard - very hard! And keep repeating it until the shape emerges.

#20 Schneidergott

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 03:01 PM

The Schneidermeister recommends that you pass the iron on an angle (Schraegzug) to make use of the stretchability of the cloth on the bias. They say pull hard - very hard! And keep repeating it until the shape emerges.


A colleague of mine called that procedure "zu Tode bügeln" (press until it's dead)!

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#21 Schneidergott

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 07:27 PM

I suspect that the Schneidermeister viewpoint is a very traditional one. From the modern point of view it probably looks like "ironing it to death". The older tailors used to always do more ironwork, and trousers used to be commonly cut very narrow. I guess that modern baggy trousers are a bit like drape coats - they require less meticulous fitting and ironwork, relying more on cutting for the fit.


1. My colleague is just a bit older than me, plus he was referring to super-light weight fabrics which are harder to shape. He said that one would have to repeat the ironwork several times until it'll stay in a satisfactory manner.

2. It's true that factory made trousers (usually) don't get much shaping, if at all. But I highly doubt that a cut can compensate good ironwork.

I guess that modern baggy trousers are a bit like drape coats - they require less meticulous fitting and ironwork...


That's why baggy trousers look the way they do: Baggy.

...relying more on cutting for the fit.


This mentioned in one sentence with the droop cut makes me :LMAO:

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#22 Bentpin

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 10:43 PM

This is my first time trying to post some pics. I hope it works.
The pics are of a beautifully made new pair of trousers - made at the Row . I have used a straight edge to show the shaping and contribute to the ironwork thread.
Other points of note are the wide pleated skirt on the waistband and how the lining is turned to form the skirt on the front piece. The drafting system follows the flyline.
There is a lot of hand stitching - the back seam, the pocket turns, the fly catch, exquisite buttonholes ( gimped). etc.







#23 Bentpin

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 02:13 AM

a few thoughts on shaping.
Many believe that the parts of garments that are on the bias should be stretched, in other words, compensated for. For example many will cut the bias part short and stretch it in the pressing, before sewing, or when sewing to join the non bias part.
In trousers this would apply especially to the underside upper inseam and the back seam where it turns - and this is often done. making the bias more controllable and more stable. It could also apply to the underside's outer thigh area and to the topside lower leg, though less. It could be done in the sewing, but carefully and without exagerration and would be appilcabe to those fabrics that do not take so readily to iron work, because all fabrics stretch on the bias.
However if the fabric won't do it then it mustn't be forced to do it! It is all , as ever, a matter of adapting to the materials on hand. As a giuide I would try about 1/4 inch of stretch for every 6 inches of true bias.

#24 dpcoffin

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 05:09 AM

Fantastic; thanks!

#25 Bentpin

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 05:28 AM

from BW Poole's 'Scientific Pattern Construction'. Fabulous book from which I will be posting drafts.
In the meantime -- OUCH! Pics in following posts!



#26 Bentpin

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 05:33 AM

OUCH! ( from BW Poole)






#27 DrBschdn

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 04:00 AM

Thanks for another great post. So far, all of the illustrations and photographs that I've seen related to ironwork show the iron placed directly on carefully wetted cloth. Am I right to assume that this is because a press cloth would impede one's ability to manipulate the grain?

#28 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 04:21 AM

Thanks for another great post. So far, all of the illustrations and photographs that I've seen related to ironwork show the iron placed directly on carefully wetted cloth. Am I right to assume that this is because a press cloth would impede one's ability to manipulate the grain?


Historically a damping cloth was only used in the initial "sponging"or shrinking and the final press to remove the "shine" from the wool. It was also used to shrink dart heads and tight areas that need steam to sufficiently shrink the area. The actual manipulation what done dry, or if needed, two fingers dipped in water and sparsly applied was enough.

Jason
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#29 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 03:02 PM

Fantastic Article from old school, not even my tailor master did it so exact because it was not necessary. Nobody ordered narrow pants and wide pants don't need such big iron work. Nobody is adding a calf anymore to the Hinter-trouser.

The Ironwork is done on the left side of the fabric, with good steam and an Iron that will not too hot and not too cold. On the right side of the fabric only ironing with a linen cloth to remove shine.

Schrittschluss bedeutet das die Hose sich unterhalb des Gesäßes schön an den Körper ranschmiegen kann.
Spaltschluss ist das die Vorder- und Hinterhose sich nicht zu eng in die 'PO-Ritze' reinziehen, deshalb muss erstens die Länge in die Kreuznaht dressiert werden. Bei der Schnittaufstellung muss man deshalb auch den Spaltdurchmesser mit 1/4GW + 1.0cm bei Herrenhosen mit Nähten kontrollieren Bild 554, 555.

My English is not well enough, I have to learn Tailor-English first.
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#30 Todd Hudson

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 02:07 PM

I'm trying to figure out if I can use all this iron work with possibly narrow plaid trousers and get all the horizontal stripes to match up on the outseam from waist to hem. I'm not talking about the trews described in another post but they might be an option. I wonder if there is any published advice on ironwork with plaid trousers.

#31 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 07:48 PM

Trews will serve the best purpose, by the time your checks hit hip level matching and orientation becomes a bitch.

Another option would be to make a pair of dress trousers with a straight outside seam, as was meant to be used with braiding.
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#32 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 08:54 AM

If you do that iron work like in the picture you will be killing yourself and afterwards your throw all the parts in the garbage.
In the 60thies cutting schools agreed not to stretch any trouser seams anymore as you cannot stretch the seam in the front trouser as it is straight almost. Or you rape the cloth.
On the other hand cutting systems became so accurate as when you stretch seams you will rape the pattern.
Eingebügelt wurde nur noch durch Schrägdressur.

So forget about this article as it brings too much difficulty.
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#33 Sator

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 09:53 AM

1960s Rundschau books still show you their method of "Dressur" on trousers.

What is true is that modern methods only requires extremely modest ironwork. This article is very old school.

#34 Nishijin

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 10:50 AM

This article may be old school, but it's stuff usefull to know.
http://www.paulgrassart.com

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
Mark Twain

#35 Torry Kratch

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 10:54 AM

Sator, I admire your contribution to the knowledge of the tailoring craft! It is through such knowledge it can become art. I'm glad that you kill the idea of 3-D design, because there is a "Dressur. " In Russian, by the way ironing treatment is also called "Дрессура".

#36 Sator

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 09:09 PM

Dressura? It's funny how Russian technical terms are so similar to German ones.




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