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Difference in tailoring and Hong Kong tailoring


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#1 Padme

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 12:02 PM

"Mid-range suits can be tailored to measure by machine. A tailored suit may require numerous fittings followed by many different sewing operations and up to three months to complete. With casual wear being so popular, even in the office, the request for tailored suits is diminishing. Nowadays, whatever sewing can be completed by machine, or use of heat bonded inner facing is acceptable to speed up the tailoring process. The first fitting of a suit is usually piece basted by the tailor. Ultimately, it will be sewn by a combination of hand and machine stitching. Hand sewn buttonholes are typical, depicting a well-made tailored suit.

Another version of tailoring is known as Japanese tailoring or Far Eastern Manufacturing. In Hong Kong a businessman can have a suit made up with two pairs of trousers in twenty-four hours."


This is from my fashion class I am taking. What exactly is the difference? I know from reading my dressmaking books and reading forums like this what tailoring is but I don't know what a Hong Kong tailor does in his shop that is so very different.

This is not for a test or paper. It's for me.





#2 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 01:03 PM

The Hong Kong tailor has a cutter who cut out the pieces with Rock of Eye and a tape in 20 minutes directly on the fabric. Then they have 15 slaves working on that suit. Almost everything is made by machine. Everything is fused wiht no front canvas. Probably the suit looks awfull in the end, but is cheap.
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#3 shirtmaven

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 10:22 PM

How old is this text book?

this passage is poorly written.

Der Zuschneider "SLAVES"? Maybe the front is fused/with a chest piece or a full canvas.
is it all hand work? But i have seen tailors make a decent jacket in 6 hours.

#4 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 11:22 PM

a decent jacket is NOT an artisan made bespoke coat... even Poulin gives the optimistic number of no less than 24 hours of labour goes into a well made highend coat and he is from a school that emphasizes machine work with a little hand finishing.
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#5 shirtmaven

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 12:05 AM

a decent jacket is NOT an artisan made bespoke coat... even Poulin gives the optimistic number of no less than 24 hours of labour goes into a well made highend coat and he is from a school that emphasizes machine work with a little hand finishing.

i am not confusing a highend garment with mostly machine made jacket made in some back alley sweatshop.
the old factory system in the USA graded jackets as a 2,4,or 6 make. this was the number of man hours needed to assemble a men's canvassed suit jacket. a #4 had the canvas put in via a jump stitch machine. sleeves and collars were set by hand and there was some hand finishing. machine buttonholes of course. a #6 may have had the canvas set by hand. Hand buttonholes etc.

I was mostly offended by Der schneiders reference to slaves. 15 tailors can crank out quite a number of suits over night. even more if they are fused with a chest piece.

#6 Nishijin

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 01:00 AM

2, 4 and 6 man-hours or needle time ? It is quite different.
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#7 shirtmaven

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 01:21 AM

2, 4 and 6 man-hours or needle time ? It is quite different.

that was the clocked time per operation to complete a garment.

#8 Padme

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 04:51 AM

The Hong Kong tailor has a cutter who cut out the pieces with Rock of Eye and a tape in 20 minutes directly on the fabric. Then they have 15 slaves working on that suit. Almost everything is made by machine. Everything is fused wiht no front canvas. Probably the suit looks awfull in the end, but is cheap.



This was my thought too, but I just wanted to be sure. Thank you.

#9 Padme

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 04:54 AM

How old is this text book?

this passage is poorly written.

Der Zuschneider "SLAVES"? Maybe the front is fused/with a chest piece or a full canvas.
is it all hand work? But i have seen tailors make a decent jacket in 6 hours.



It's an online class. Universal Class that we get for free from our local library. I've just been choosing what looks interesting.

#10 Padme

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 05:00 AM

i am not confusing a highend garment with mostly machine made jacket made in some back alley sweatshop.
the old factory system in the USA graded jackets as a 2,4,or 6 make. this was the number of man hours needed to assemble a men's canvassed suit jacket. a #4 had the canvas put in via a jump stitch machine. sleeves and collars were set by hand and there was some hand finishing. machine buttonholes of course. a #6 may have had the canvas set by hand. Hand buttonholes etc.

I was mostly offended by Der schneiders reference to slaves. 15 tailors can crank out quite a number of suits over night. even more if they are fused with a chest piece.




Or mice. (Beatrice Potter's The Tailor of Gloucester) I wasn't sure if it was a mainly machine made suit or they did indeed have a bunch of people doing different parts of the jacket getting it done quickly.

#11 Padme

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 05:01 AM

2, 4 and 6 man-hours or needle time ? It is quite different.



What I was thinking.

#12 shirtmaven

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 05:02 AM

It's an online class. Universal Class that we get for free from our local library. I've just been choosing what looks interesting.

it book reads like it was written by someone who does not have a very good command of the english language.

the majority of garments coming out of HK/ China are lower priced garments.
but
I have seen made to measure suits that will rival any tailor for hand work.

#13 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 02:51 PM

How old is this text book?

this passage is poorly written.

Der Zuschneider "SLAVES"? Maybe the front is fused/with a chest piece or a full canvas.
is it all hand work? But i have seen tailors make a decent jacket in 6 hours.


With a 6 hour coat, I wipe my floor under the toilet, go and buy it if you like it.
www.berlinbespokesuits.com

#14 jukes

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 05:35 PM

These days the finishing work on top class west end garments for men is carried out mainly by the Chinese, some of the best stitching you will see, and will certainly give the Italians a run for their money.

#15 Kathleen F.

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 04:26 AM

With a 6 hour coat, I wipe my floor under the toilet, go and buy it if you like it.

Two thoughts come to mind, the first from here:

One author (Otis Madison) is noteworthy because he states heís never made a mistake in the three books of his Iíve seen and after he died, there was a big to-do because someone suggested he had in fact made an error but somebody (a sycophant but I prefer my word, psychofan) wrote an editorial stating that Otis Madison (so described as the Wampen of his day but you wonít know who that is so weíll use the edu-lite comparative of Sandra Betzina and youíll get my drift) had never made an error and made quite a big deal of it to such extent Seligman reprinted portions of the protest in his bibliography (Cutting for All). Thus, browsing the Library of Congress, and judging from the readily accessible proofs, it seems incontrovertible that Jesus Christ didnít die until the 1870ís and additionally by all accounts, was a finely skilled, superlative and most excellent pattern maker and not a carpenter at all. Realistically, the summary of the record would conclude that obstinacy has been an occupational hazard for the last 500 years or so.


My second thought is summarized via the difference between crap and quality.

It is annoying to hear trash talk about ďcheapĒ clothes and from every quarter. I include people who sew for pleasure, to custom clothiers to manufacturers of all sizes. Even in that community, thereís an identifiable pattern. The smaller or newer the operation, the more they talk trash. Here are my reasons why you should stop -other than that it identifies you as a wannabe- because is is unbecoming, unkind and gratuitously insults other people. Some of whom you hope will do business with you.

  • On one hand we pat ourselves on the back that we can make stuff ourselves so we arenít stuck with having to buy cheap crappy stuff. Yay for us, we score one point.
  • People who donít buy our stuff but buy stuff we think is cheap and crappy should subtract one point.
  • We also pat ourselves on the back that we can sew stuff so we arenít stuck with having to pay higher prices for the good stuff because we can just copy it. More yay and another point for us.
  • People who arenít as good as we are because they canít or donít sew, score another minus point.
Now, heard are constant complaints that consumers donít want to pay the price of our stuff, some of it custom made (that some of us make, score another point if you do) yet at the same time, producers get upset when consumers buy other stuff that costs the same or more than our stuff. So which is it? People are too cheap if they donít buy your stuff so if they have the money to buy someone elseís more expensive stuff, theyíre stupid? Stupid or cheap are the only options? It seems more likely that the customer doesnít agree the product represents the same value (so you should do something about that) but saying consumers are stupid or cheap isnít going to win them over. Chances are excellent that the customer in question isnít even your market so why would you worry about it?

In my opinion, it is a discourtesy to suggest that those who don't buy $4,500 suits are worthless human beings. Some do well enough to put food on the table and keep a roof over their children's heads -and were the latter only able to do so by making a 2, 4, 6 hour suits, they deserve my respect rather than my derision. Particularly if their only alternative amounts to being unemployed and my having to pay for their food stamps etc.
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#16 Padme

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 01:22 AM

Thank you for replying Kathleen. I like your posts and your blog. My first thought on the Hong Kong tailor were the old black and white sitcom shows on TV Land when the main character takes a business trip and visits that type of tailor while they are there. The tailor always seems nice and professional but you never see the back room and how the Hong Kong suit is put together. I know how the English suit is made for the most part thanks to YouTube, blogs and forums like this.

I have read the paragraph about the customer who can or cannot afford the expensive suit but I sometimes think now that it is out of date. Sure you know you can't afford if you can't take the time to go and visit your tailor, but the main character on Father Knows Best did go to a tailor and he ran his small insurance company and was considered middle class.

I think the point I'm not making very well is that there are probably a lot of men who quietly read and are interested but there are times in their life where just being married, parenting and working is all they can juggle at the moment. I'm sure most of these men could afford a tailored suit too.



Der Zuschneider I'm keeping you out of this post because my husband and I might get down to the coast and it might be fun to meet up with you and your wife. A little german would be fun for my husband to hear and be around.

Edited by Padme, 14 February 2012 - 01:23 AM.

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#17 Kathleen F.

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 01:52 AM

I think the point I'm not making very well is that there are probably a lot of men who quietly read and are interested but there are times in their life where just being married, parenting and working is all they can juggle at the moment. I'm sure most of these men could afford a tailored suit too.

I think other issues are social and cultural changes as they affect fitting in at the workplace. We are middle class, my husband is an engineer working in solar energy. He would stick out like a sore thumb in bespoke suit. Now, if he were in C-level management, then he'd do well to consider it.

The mores of the workplace have changed so much... in Silicon Valley where guys can afford to dress well, the thing to do is wear wild socks...
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#18 Nishijin

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 03:05 AM

Kathleen, though you make a very good point that "fitting in" and peer pressure are to be taken with due care, I want to stress the fact that bespoke tailoring is not limited to business suits. Trousers (including jeans), jackets... many kinds of garments can be made by a tailor. Some tailors do shirts too, and if not bespoke shirtmakers sure do, and there is a lot of fun to have with shirts. A tailor is a garment maker, we should be able to do nearly everything.
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