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toile fixes with heavier cloth


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#1 zokiTzar

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 10:24 PM

hi
i got some heavy chalk striped denim, and re-cut and basted previous pattern
with fixing back lenght -1 inch
and widening - offsetting from panel seam bellow bust
there is a dart on the front side panel tacked , I didnt baste it yet , should i do it or ommit it
shoulders have slim shoulderpads
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#2 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 10:28 PM

Much better!

Your seams don't seem to match up making the garment skew slightly to the wearers left
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#3 zokiTzar

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 10:31 PM

thanks JM
how do i fixe this?
and what elese should i fix you think?

#4 Schneidergott

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 10:53 PM

Looks like it's a bit tight on the hips, note the drags from the bust to the seat.
The front could use a bit extra length.

Posted Image

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"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

 


#5 zokiTzar

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 10:58 PM

ok SG I will let out side seams at hips
what lengh do you mean? overall lenght of the jacket or what?

#6 Schneidergott

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 11:14 PM

The length over bust. In the lateral view it looks like it's too short at centre front.
If you have inlays in the shoulders you can let the fronts down a bit and see what happens. Might solve the tightness problem at the hips a bit, too.

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

 


#7 zokiTzar

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 12:06 AM

thanks SG
I will do that, I left more than enough on all seams so I can fix it ad nauseam :hmm:
will post some pics for fixes
what about armholes are they too tight, or maybe back shoulder too wide?

#8 greger

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 04:22 AM

The back shoulder could use a dart.

It seems lke the curve at back waist into seat is to sharp or not graceful.

Pin the excess over shoulder under until you see what you like for shoulder width and run of the armhole.

I wonder if the coat is a tad short.

#9 MANSIE WAUCH

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 05:31 AM

When you shortened the back across the shoulders, (we call this the back balance!)you should have lengthened the front balance at the same time,
(I should have mentioned this before, normal procedure is to add to the front the amount you take off the back and visa versa).
This is why your armholes are showing up on the tight side. you mentioned shortening the back by 1inch, is this the amount you removed across the shoulders?
If so your sleeves are going to be very large when you sew them in.

Edited by MANSIE WAUCH, 04 September 2010 - 05:33 AM.


#10 Sator

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 11:38 PM

Looks like it's a bit tight on the hips, note the drags from the bust to the seat.


Her measurements show she has a narrow waist and prominent hips (but only moderate bust), so I am not surprised this is necessary. This is a really nice example of how you should let the direction of the drags instruct you in which direction the shortness occurs in.

If, after taking care of those drags, you think you need more waist suppression, you may need to consider having extra small darts at the front like on this coat:

http://www.cutterand...?showtopic=1563

Posted Image

A.A. Whife also sometimes uses these sorts of darts as well.

I would only make these secondary darts about 1-1.5cm ("finished" seams) in width. Note that draft also has a back shoulder seam dart:

Posted Image

With women you just find these sorts of darts are really important.

BTW I think that the length of skirt on a ladies' coat is entirely to taste and fashion. Many ladies' coats are much shorter than this.

#11 zokiTzar

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 11:49 PM

hi
all above fixes are done
front longer for amount taken out at back
armhole lowered but maybe not enough?
hips out about 1/2 inch each side
how far should shoulder go as indicated with line , isnt this a bit too far out?
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Edited by zokiTzar, 04 September 2010 - 11:50 PM.


#12 Sator

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 12:54 AM

Yes, I agree that your shoulders are a bit over-extended, and you can take them in by an amount that is to taste.

I do wonder if I am seeing the following problem as well of curved creases at the front of scye:

Posted Image

Crookening the neckpoint a little will also throw more length to the front balance. The above problem occurs in women because of a need to throw more fullness to the front of the bust. In some cases you may even need a horizontal dart that extends from armscye to centre of bust - which has a crookening effect on the neckpoint, and throws fullness forwards. A similar effect can be created in part by shrinking the front of armscye, then taping the front of scye, drawing in the tape as you sew it.

I am always a little hesitant about enlarging the scye on a sleeveless baste. The armscye is going to be enlarged by a seam allowance anyway. However, this also depends on whether you are going to do things such as shrink then tape the front and back of armscye, drawing in the tape, or whether you are going to stretch the front of armscye.

#13 Schneidergott

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 02:39 AM

Did you shape (work) the back with the iron?
Looks like the rear armhole needs some lifting/ stretching, which will result in taking in the CB seam a bit.
This is what I had to do when I used the Rundschau men's pattern.

Do you have a picture of the toile open, not pinned at the CF?
The reason I ask is that it looks kind of tight to me across chest as if the front is held in position by the pin only.

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

 


#14 MANSIE WAUCH

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 03:33 AM

I think the hips need letting out a bit more on the underarm seam. See the gents dia by sator, if you can make the same adjustment on the back sidepanel (that is the underarm seam, it should clear the drags at the underarm. The front balance does not need anymore adjustment! You do need to narrow the shoulders down.
(If the front dart has not been cut, consider putting it slightly on a slant (see jkt draft, front dart). Also watch the seam on the back as it curves into the armhole, it may be puckering on the curve!

I also have a feeling that if you altered the front balance by the same amount as you took off the back, it may be a tad too much. If this is so I would suggest you pick up the front shoulder 1/2 inch at the front neck only, leave the shoulder as is.


BTW Best wishes on your Birthday!

Edited by MANSIE WAUCH, 05 September 2010 - 04:35 AM.


#15 zokiTzar

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 07:52 AM

thanks to all for great help / advice
I will try to fix it
we just finished bbq for my bday , it was great first course partridges , second steak
belgian trappist beer and after red wine
sorry got carried away from tailoring
:frantics:
I cant do much iron work on this as it is like denim , very heavy cotton cloth
I will try to do back darts as well, and post unpinned front pic
anyway thanks for all the help , cant wait to go to proper wool for this one :yahoo:

#16 greger

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 08:49 AM

Stanley Hosteks coat book has some about fitting.

There is an art to fitting. It includes proper basting up. The part with out an inlay gets ligthly pressed back, like pressing a seam open. The part with an inlay lays flat and not pressed back. A good place to start is at the shoulder. Cut out the bastings and use pins. Now you can move the cloth up down, left right unitl the strips are straight up and down front and back. You also work at the shoulder slope and figure out how much shoulder padding you want and where. Shoulder padding maybe none or size of a thumb or palm of hand or larger. Also by moving the arms all over you may find the shoulder seam is more useful some places than other places. Shoulder width depends on a number of things. What kind of sleeve cap (crown), how far out or in you want the shoulders to extend (big head looks smaller with broader shoulders), how much arm movement you want. So pin out what you don't want. Side seams and darts can be change with pins, too. The best cutters depend on all. Where is a good place to trim? A lower shoulder means the bottom of that armhole may need to be trimmed, but not so much as you loose your seam allowance. There are ways of pinning where the cloth slides into place on the inlay, not all the time, but some places sometimes. Another way to check the balance is the hem line. Is it level? Some cutters like the front a bit lower in front, so might add a balance mark (thread mark) where the hem normally would be not where they style the hem to be. The bastings get the garment on the person, the pins help the cutter find the correct fit and style the customer wants. With the garment off you can chalk or thread mark the new seam allowances from the inside and trim some outlays away change the paper pattern to fit. Other considerations is where and how much cloth to ease in.

#17 Sator

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 10:06 AM

Yes, happy birthday! :Party:

The back shoulder could use a dart.



Also watch the seam on the back as it curves into the armhole, it may be puckering on the curve!


Actually, I just thought about this, and I do wonder if for this figure, it may make more sense to have the panel seam extend into the shoulder seam:

Posted Image

This would obviate the need for you to insert a back shoulder seam dart.

BTW I made a mistake when I said to add a smaller secondary dart in the back - I should have said to only insert it into the front panel.

#18 zokiTzar

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 05:15 PM

thanks to all for help
so to summarize what would need to be done here
ironwork wont save it as it is cotton/denim
should I offset neck /shoulder like suggested and redo the back
with panel running into seam with incorporated dart?
I still have some cloth left for it?
or do I post a non pinned image first and then decide
In the meantime I am tacking pants and preparing them for baste :Hmmmph:




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