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toile fixes with heavier cloth


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#19 Nishijin

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 09:39 AM

In my "advanced beginner" opinion, ironwork it the way to perfect an already good fit. There is a lot of work here that needs to be done before aplying ironwork.

Do not reduce your shoulders width yet, you will need the cloth (see later).

Do not scoop the front of scye neither. I've learned the hard way never to do that (I completely lost a coat).
First, read this. Maybe not the historical part (though it's pretty interesting), but the last part, with the stereograms.
http://www.cutterand...?showtopic=1403

Then, rip open the top of your front princess seam (the one going from the shoulder to the bust), and play with the shoulder width without moving the neckpoint, until the front of scye is clean. The neckpoint here might need a little crookening, but I do not think the real problem is here (or it would show on the center front).




I remember reading something pretty good here about how to correct those folds at the back scye (caused by not enough room for shoudler blades), but I cannot find it... Point is, I too beleive the back princess seam would be better running to the shoulder. If you like the present style, you can always fit with a seam to the shoulder, then when your pattern is good, rotate the seam to the back scye.

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#20 zokiTzar

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 05:16 PM

thanks nishijin
I will try to do those fixes
will post progress later

#21 zokiTzar

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 07:09 PM

Posted Image

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here is unpinned pic, with armhole closeup

#22 greger

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 10:21 AM

Had something typed out earlier but lost it all with hitting the wrong key or combination.

Need real shoulder pads in place before you begin; and during the fitting these shoulder pads may need to be moved. With pins you start on the highest shoulder getting the back and front panels so the cloth hangs right on both panels. Then do the lower shoulder. Sometimes to get a lower shoulder right it actually starts at the other shoulder point. Do not cut inlays away until you are absolutely finished with all the sorting out of fit. Some inlays are left so they can be let out as the person gains weight over time, as usually happens. With cloth that shrinks you can make the back shoulder lenght longer and shrink to ease it in. This helps with the shoulder blades. There are other places you might find that handy too. Some tailors have taken shrinking and stretching beyound fitting and into art.

Fitting is an art in of itself. You want more than that the garment hangs nicely- you want to be able to move in it too. The person should move around in it some to show out problems. Sometimes a garment might be better looser, or cloth stretch somewhere, or a seam in a better place to work with a muscle. Pins are so easy to take out and move the cloth and repin and then see what you gained and/or lose. By experimenting you can learn alot much quicker than sewing and the resewing and so on.

If you slide the back up or down on the "side seam" the shoulder needs to be repined to keep the armhole circumference about the same, if not the same. Some times it is better to add and subtract at the shoulder neck points leaving the armhole alone. Balance is largely rotating the garment around the arnhole so the front is correct in relationship to the back.

Said something about lightly pressing the seam allowance side without inlay. You might change the seam place so a hard press would make it more difficult to work with. Some just leave the cloth flat which may or may not make it more difficult to detrimmine where to put the seam. Different minds work different; and cloth is different, such as stripes or weave can be a guide.

Here is a thread I noticed that will be handy. Tells a little bit to give an idea how some of your thinking could go for fitting. Permanent Style Blog

#23 posaune

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 07:38 PM

in my opinion you have more than one thing wrong.
First look from side view at the waist line it goes up in back and goes down in front.
The pattern is out of balance.
Before you are proving the fit fasten the shoulder pads so that they are sitting tidy and will not disturb.
I think that the cut is not the right one for your lady. Look how the waist goes in at back.
If you draft a plumb line from shoulder blades down you will see that her derriere stands before the shoulder blades.
So havening a plumb seam at back center (from waist down)is not good.
In the back center seam you can go to an indentation at waist about 1 to 1.5 cm and after the waist you should go out
again and add maybe 1 cm at the hem.
The waist darting should be done mostly at back.
As you see the shoulder is to square for her and you must give her a back shoulder dart. You can take that out
at the back armhole princess seam. In front you have a shoulder princess seam.
If you are having stripes it would look better with a bust princess seam.
If not - it would look better if you move the seam (above bust point)more over to the center (+ 1 cm) of the shoulder (in my opinion).
Lg
posaune

#24 zokiTzar

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:00 PM

thanks greger and posaune
I will do the fixes and post progress

#25 Schneidergott

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 08:57 PM

I hate to say this, but I find it's better to start again from scratch.
The changes you made have affected many different areas of the toile.
For example, when you altered the back and front lengths you also shifted the natural waist line out of it's position, so the darts are not in the right place any more.

I recommend starting with proper measurements, but first a few comments on what to keep in mind:

1) Your lady has a straight back with strong blades, which means that although the back centre seam has to be quite straight you'll need additional length over and across the blades.
So the easiest way to get that is to have a panelled back, with the option to have a seam down from the shoulder or into the armhole:

Posted Image

Whatever you prefer.

2) She has full hips, so you'll need extra width and extra length there, so you might try opening the pattern at hip level, adding an inch or so (that would be at the back hip line from point g3 to G1 in the draft)

Posted Image

Back to the basics of measuring:

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Sator and posaune are working on a translation of the Rundschau system for women (which is a huge piece of work, so you'll need some patience), so you might like to try that once it's done.

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#26 zokiTzar

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 06:29 PM

ok , will do the pattern/toile all over with all the above in mind
thanks

#27 greger

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 12:23 PM

You can experiment pinning the toil above and learn something from it before rushing off to a new pattern.

Don't know if you have read this book, but it is worth a read.

#28 eboli

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 04:17 PM

May I humbly add my experience and kind of contradict some of you, guys?
To me the biggest problem is that the cut does not correspond to the prominence of the bust. So it causes all the buckles on the sides and armholes.
And it is also the reason why the front is too short.
Unfortunately all construction systems I know do not really apply to a feminine bust.
I've always been surprised/disappointed I had to make a Full Bust Adjustment in EVERY pattern I had drawn. It seems that the guys and the Rundschau e.a. only have cup B in mind. :(
But when you are fuller busted you need more width as well as more length on the front but not necessarily on the back!

I would suggest you make a FBA, or better: you drape a sloper directly on the lady. Whith that you should be able to alter your coat pattern.

By the way: I've come to the same result as Allgemeine Schneiderzeitung and A.A.Whife when I draped a sloper on a dummy of myself.
I need a second dart at the waist, but a little more curved than that in the drawing Sator posted.
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#29 greger

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 05:24 PM

There are all kinds of systems out there. Poulin's third edition has a system that goes by the bust measure and not the chest measure. The waist and hips and some other measures are to be figured in.
The MTOC, maybe third volume, has some womens systems. One is for extra large sizes. A person doesn't want to blindly follow a system either, but use ones wits and guidance from somewhere else (angles).

#30 MANSIE WAUCH

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 05:18 AM

May I humbly add my experience and kind of contradict some of you, guys?
To me the biggest problem is that the cut does not correspond to the prominence of the bust. So it causes all the buckles on the sides and armholes.
And it is also the reason why the front is too short.
Unfortunately all construction systems I know do not really apply to a feminine bust.
I've always been surprised/disappointed I had to make a Full Bust Adjustment in EVERY pattern I had drawn. It seems that the guys and the Rundschau e.a. only have cup B in mind. :(
But when you are fuller busted you need more width as well as more length on the front but not necessarily on the back!

I would suggest you make a FBA, or better: you drape a sloper directly on the lady. Whith that you should be able to alter your coat pattern.

By the way: I've come to the same result as Allgemeine Schneiderzeitung and A.A.Whife when I draped a sloper on a dummy of myself.
I need a second dart at the waist, but a little more curved than that in the drawing Sator posted.



This thread is a continuation of the thread 'SB panel coat toile progress' which is also in the women's tailor and cutter section.
For a full indication of the progress and advice so far, have a look at the origional toile!

Edited by MANSIE WAUCH, 27 September 2010 - 05:20 AM.





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