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#19 posaune

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 09:11 PM

Zoki,
I think you can use any system - the cap should be high and small.
I give you a draft for a ladies jacket sleeve.
How you do it - take a look into the gents coats: the rundschau sleeve draft system.
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With ladies a 2 piece sleeve is often achieved in this way.But you can do a 2 piece like in the gents coat. Only take the ladies numbers.

Lg
posaune

Edited by Sator, 17 November 2010 - 08:19 AM.


#20 zokiTzar

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:01 PM

thanks posaune I will draft it today :)

#21 Sator

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:51 PM

I can also recommend the Czujewiecz ladies' draft for sleeves I posted recently. It is very similar to the Rundschau, but you get to the same place a lot quicker. IIRC that particular draft was for a very narrow sleeve, so you may want to consider widening it a bit.

#22 posaune

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 12:53 AM

Sator,
The Czujewiecz sleeves is in my opinion not so good for such a tight jacket with a high armhole. The cap is in my opinion not high enough.
lg
posaune

#23 Sator

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 08:18 AM

I don't find the crown height on Czujewiecz drafts to be much different from the standard Rundschau draft when you place the completed draft side by side.

Then again I only have 1950-60s ladies' Rundschau drafts, which perhaps have a lower crown than more recent ones.

#24 posaune

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 10:47 PM

Sator,
here are both. With such a tight jacket as in ASZ it is best to take the high small cap. The Cujz. suit jacket is wider.

Armholemeasures

Armlochumfang 40
Armlochdurchmesser 12
Armlochhöhe 36


Rundschau capheight 15,8 (-0.5) Sleeve width 19
Cjuz. Capheight 14,3 Sleeve width 21

lg Posaune

Edited by posaune, 17 November 2010 - 10:55 PM.


#25 MANSIE WAUCH

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 08:53 AM

Yes, it is a design feature. It is a typically '50s thing in which the cutter tried to emphasise the curves of an hour glass figure.

I suggest reading this from Whife:

http://www.cutterand...p?showtopic=922

If you did make the seam straight, it would de-emphasise the roundness of the waist. This does make it more modern (the hour glass isn't as fashionable at the moment). It may be something worth discussing, and ask her what she likes.


I must take my hat off! to you Sator, how you keep abreast of the threads on every occasion beats me?

Edited by MANSIE WAUCH, 19 November 2010 - 08:54 AM.


#26 zokiTzar

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 10:12 PM

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hi i drafted a sleeve based on armhole and the ladies basic draft
it is very bad , i included a photo of draft as well
some problems may come from the fact that cloth is hard to iron-denim
i gathered the folds gradually with pins like on C. Schaefer book for couture jackets
so lower half of armhole is straight and all above is gathered
any hints help appreciated :)
what is as a guide difference between armhole circumference and sleeve for wool and what for hard to iron cloth like cotton and linen?
thanks
z

#27 posaune

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 07:46 PM

Just awful. The T and C draft is okay. Your sleeve look very rounded for me.
The difference between a wool sleeve and a demin sleeve is you can not dress or ease the demin. So you watch out for ease in the cap and the elbow curve at inseam. But nothing of this will give you a sleeve like this.
Did you mess with seam allowances? In the german draft there is non.

lg
posaune

#28 zokiTzar

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 11:54 PM

yes terrible i know
i will recheck all
thanks

#29 Sator

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 11:58 PM

I have set denim trial sleeves before and have never had any problems like this.

Did you try to create a sleeve with gathers around the crown? If so you are best to try to stick to a straight Rundschau or Czujewiecz draft.

The other thing is that it may just be from a faulty setting of the sleeve head. Tailors don't usually use pins like you describe when setting a sleeve. I suggest trying to ease in the excess in the crown gradually with your fingers as you baste it in.

#30 Schneidergott

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 03:14 AM

Posaune's draft is the classical Rundschau draft and it usually gives a very good result.
Note the relocation of the centre front sleeve seam to match the side seam of the jacket.

I think the draft you used does not correspond to the shape of the armhole.

Posted Image

Easiest way to get a matching sleeve around the front armhole is to copy the shape of the armhole from the front sleeve pitch to the side seam.

Posted Image

Make Äe and S of both, sleeve and jacket front match and copy the shape of the armhole.

Another way to do that is to put both sleeve parts together at the front seams first and then place Äe of the sleeve on Äe of the jacket and copy the shape.

Drafting and cutting a Rundschau sleeve that will be pretty close to what you'll need isn't that difficult.

First you have to measure your armhole height(without seam allowances):

Posted Image

Front and back divided by 2 gives the final result. Then measure the armhole width (Umf) from 27a over Äe, S, h.Äe to 19a and again divide it by 2.
You will also need the final armhole diameter which you'll get by measuring straight from Äe to h.Äe.

The formula for the sleeve cap height is:

Posted Image

Just replace the numbers in the image with your ones. So it's 1/2 of Ah minus (1/10 of Ad plus 1-2cm). In a case of a classical jacket you'll need a higher sleeve crown, so it's 1/10 Ad plus 1cm.

The ease in the sleeve should not be more than 10% in general, depending on the fabric. I would recommend to use about 5-6% ease, which is appropriate for all sorts of fabrics. If you want more roping just open the upper sleeve a bit. In order to do so draw a line from the crown height to the vent corner:

Posted Image

You can use the same technique to reduce the crown width.

To determine the distribution of the ease subtract the width of the armhole from that of the sleeve and follow the instructions in the diagram:

Posted Image

There is no ease in the area from Äe to S. In the jacket pattern mark Äe1, which is 1/2 from Äe to Sch, and Äe2, which is 1/2 from h.Äe to Sch.
Depending on your percentage of ease add it to the distance of Äe and h.Äe to Sch to get the corresponding marks in the sleeve crown (you'll get a new Sch in the sleeve crown).

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#31 zokiTzar

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 05:39 AM

thanks sg i will try fixing it

#32 Lasska

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 02:58 PM

Sorry, zokiTzar, byt I think shoulder line is too long. Have a look at pic, may be if shoulder line follows a side line of the back (blue line) looks better.

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#33 zokiTzar

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 03:01 AM

hi
everyone
i ma going to finnish this finaly
i have some questions though
i did pattern after the denim toile i had on above pics
now i wonder where on each piece is straight line supposed to be and how would
check or stripe match be positioned
I will draw new sleve for it

Posted Image

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also on second pic sometimes i see that small square end on some drafts what is it for i always wondered?the green line i mean

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#34 posaune

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 06:17 AM

zokiTzar
the green square is only in drafts where seam allowance is included.
I would square up with hip line to get the grain.
Posaune
The side waist dart in front looks a bit too long for me.
It is so small , why not shove it in the panel seam (in my opinion)?

#35 zokiTzar

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 06:35 AM

good idea thanks posaune
it does seem a bit out of place there :)
do i transfer it to the front or middle seam
i have this lwmy012 tweed second row last on right
http://www.clairebos...hes/Yellows.jpg

Edited by zokiTzar, 13 July 2011 - 06:38 AM.


#36 posaune

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 07:10 PM

To get the look you are after look at

http://www.cutterand...?showtopic=1563

You do the dart parted equal front panel and side panel at waist.
Then you draft a slanted line from the dart (waist line) to the hem. So the seam will run there - maybe same slant like your front "abstich"
You cut this little part out and glue it to the front panel.

lg
posaune




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