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Drafting a basic (sleeveless) bodice


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#37 tailleuse

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 04:42 AM

No amount of shoulder padding will help me with my uneven hips. Any symmetrical pattern (which is where I come from) will emphasize that one side is higher than the other.


I think you should investigate the My Twin form, which David Page Coffin praises in his book "Shirtmaking," and in a Threads article (he was surprised that so few people had looked into it. Order the kit and find someone to help you make it.

http://www.mytwindressforms.com/


Then start with proportional muslins, build up where you need to, like the shoulders and figure out how to drape so the fabric skims your hips. It will be much easier to make adjustments if you have a 3D representation. You may have to resort to "tricks," relying on looser silhouettes, or tunics or longer jackets to disguise your hips if there isn't a way to build up a skirt to even out asymmetry. Ultimately, it's all about creating the illusion of a certain shape.

I know you don't think this method would help much, but I thought I'd give it another shot.

I assume "Mansie" wasn't trying to be discouraging, but I felt a little dispirited too, when I read his statement that no matter what you do the fit will never be "perfect."

Although I did laugh when I saw the rack illustration (I'd love to add three inches that way -- might solve some problems), it was a bit tacky.

Edited by tailleuse, 27 November 2010 - 04:50 AM.

Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#38 tailleuse

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 04:57 AM

Itís good to take your photo and scale it in the graphic program as an AutoCAD or Rhinoceros. Also its give an idea how to correct problems.


I've had a similar idea of having photos taken and then importing them into Photoshop or Illustrator (the programs I have). I wanted to create a set of realistic sized and shaped croquis for myself in order to get a better idea of how something will fit.

I intend to "posterize" them first, or do something to make them more abstract.

Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#39 MANSIE WAUCH

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 06:36 AM

I think you should investigate the My Twin form, which David Page Coffin praises in his book "Shirtmaking," and in a Threads article (he was surprised that so few people had looked into it. Order the kit and find someone to help you make it.

http://www.mytwindressforms.com/


Then start with proportional muslins, build up where you need to, like the shoulders and figure out how to drape so the fabric skims your hips. It will be much easier to make adjustments if you have a 3D representation. You may have to resort to "tricks," relying on looser silhouettes, or tunics or longer jackets to disguise your hips if there isn't a way to build up a skirt to even out asymmetry. Ultimately, it's all about creating the illusion of a certain shape.

I know you don't think this method would help much, but I thought I'd give it another shot.

I assume "Mansie" wasn't trying to be discouraging, but I felt a little dispirited too, when I read his statement that no matter what you do the fit will never be "perfect."

Although I did laugh when I saw the rack illustration (I'd love to add three inches that way -- might solve some problems), it was a bit tacky.



You misunderstood my last post regarding the perfect pattern; I was not referring to ct3dís pattern. I was referring to all and every pattern! You will never get a perfect fit.
The medium you are working with i.e. fabric, is flexible, in a state of movement when on the body, also the form you are attempting to fit i.e. the human body, is in constant movement. If we were making a pattern for a tailors dummy or a mannequin, that does not move, then we may achieve near perfection.

I do understand the problem that ct3d has, and hope she achieves what she wants.

(ct3d, I hope you donít mind me referring to you in the third person in another post, when I know you will be probably be reading it, but I felt I needed to correct a misunder-standing.)

#40 tailleuse

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 09:54 AM

You misunderstood my last post regarding the perfect pattern; I was not referring to ct3d's pattern. I was referring to all and every pattern! You will never get a perfect fit.


That's actually what I imagined you meant, but I'm glad you expanded on it.
Well, if I'm never going to achieve a perfect fit, why am I doing this? :)

Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#41 Lasska

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 09:28 PM

Dear, ct3d, you right, your body shape is very complicated, its hard to make a good fit pattern using traditional methods. I see people already giving you advises you don't need and don't ask for. And I really would like to help you to get a pattern if you don't mind.
That'll be real challenge for me. But I love challenges :)

Edited by Lasska, 27 November 2010 - 09:29 PM.


#42 ct3d

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 02:58 AM

...Like the shoulders and figure out how to drape so the fabric skims your hips.
Although I did laugh when I saw the rack illustration (I'd love to add three inches that way -- might solve some problems), it was a bit tacky.

And *I* really don't need more height - I am already more than 6 feet (for the metrically challenged) tall!

As for my hips - I am not really concerned with *them*. For a hip length pattern (blouse), I can't go all clingy, so the darts will definitely have to be smaller at the waist (less intake). BTDTGTS. In addition, I love wide skirts (think Butterick walk-away-dress), and once I have another basic skirt draft, getting to the big A-line isn't a problem. And that nicely camouflages my hips. Now trousers are a different thing, since they usually hug the figure. (That's why I don't wear trousers all that often.)
And I will need to do some reading on where to put the waistline on my skirts, now that my upper-body-draft isn't symmetrical anymore, and my natural waistline is tilted. Well, now that I know it is tilted!

I've had a similar idea of having photos taken and then importing them into Photoshop or Illustrator (the programs I have).

Don't underestimate the time *that* takes. I am using photoshop, and I am less than thrilled with how it behaves. Unfortunately I don't have a good vector graphics program that would make life easier.

The medium you are working with i.e. fabric, is flexible, in a state of movement when on the body, also the form you are attempting to fit i.e. the human body, is in constant movement. If we were making a pattern for a tailors dummy or a mannequin, that does not move, then we may achieve near perfection.
(ct3d, I hope you donít mind me referring to you in the third person in another post, when I know you will be probably be reading it, but I felt I needed to correct a misunder-standing.)

Now that you have clarified your statement, I feel much better. And no, I don't mind. :-)

I also know what you mean with the body being in a state of flux. Once I distort myself a little, clothes look a lot better on me!

And I really would like to help you to get a pattern if you don't mind. That'll be real challenge for me. But I love challenges :)

Me too, but this challenge has been lasting a little too long for my taste. :-(

And just to keep you informed: I have progressed to the 'looks-good-in-the-mirror, now-take-photographs' stage. The front right side looks good, the higher side still swings downward and makes the back neckline ride up a little when I move. By now, I have no more back neckline to speak of, while the fabric lies nicely right at the bone I had measured. I might just post pictures on Monday of that. Incidentally, this is how I had done my knit backs for years (before I discovered short rows), but since this is really a deviation from every pattern I have ever seen, this may not be right.
There is also still a nasty drag line on the left side, not to mention too much fabric across my back. Turning my head just a little to look in the mirror already distorts the fit :-(

I will probably cozy up with my pictures and look some more where the fundamental problem is.

#43 greger

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 11:40 AM

A lower hip or shoulder usually means the side seams of the blouse or coat needs to be altered. A lower hip means the high hip juts out to the side and the lower hip line falls more vertical. A sway-back usually means the belly juts out in front, so a little cloth is added there. So, It is sorta the same except instead of out front it is on the side. With a high hip that juts out you would add cloth there. The lower hip you would take away cloth, if you need to. With pins you can fit the side seams according to need.

#44 A TAILOR

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 09:14 AM

trying to draft in all the differences, and then change the draft is a loosing situation.
using your basic measurements in a regular draft, and cutting it out. is the first step.
use the angle of your higher shoulder for the draft. you will make the lower shoulder later on.
then make two fronts and two backs alike. knowing the what differences you need, make those changes
on each side. it does not mater if it is only a guess. now cut muslin and try it on.
with a marking pen draw on the muslin the changes you need to make while you have it on.
take your first pattern and lay it on new paper, trace around both fronts and both backs.
look at your muslin.the marks on it will tell you where the changes should be made.
cut the new pattern and go through the same procedure again, and again if necessary.
dont forget to number each new pattern you dont want to mix them.
to find the lower shoulder you need a helper.
stand with your back to the wall with your feet about 15 mm apart. your helper will place one arm of
your square against the wall. then slide it down to touch your right shoulder and make a mark on the
wall, or stick a pin in the wall. doing the same thing then on the left shoulder.
then measuring from the floor to the marks/pins on bot sides will tell tell you how much lower it is.
standing on a hard floor is better then a carpeted floor.
the skirt is easier tie a string snugly around your waist. again the feet apart, thats so you will stand steady.
and measure this time from the string at the hip down to the floor on both sides.
again draft the skirt making two fronts and two backs as before.
lets say the difference is 5mm. drop the low side 2cm and raise the high side 3cm.

Edited by A TAILOR, 29 November 2010 - 01:18 PM.

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#45 tailleuse

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 03:22 PM

Don't underestimate the time *that* takes. I am using photoshop, and I am less than thrilled with how it behaves. Unfortunately I don't have a good vector graphics program that would make life easier.


Oh, brother. I also have Adobe Illustrator, although i've never used it. Would that be better?

Now that you have clarified your statement, I feel much better. And no, I don't mind. :-)


I didn't make the statement, but I'm glad the other person clarified it.


And just to keep you informed: I have progressed to the 'looks-good-in-the-mirror, now-take-photographs' stage.



Good!

Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#46 ct3d

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 03:27 PM

A lower hip or shoulder usually means the side seams of the blouse or coat needs to be altered. A lower hip means the high hip juts out to the side and the lower hip line falls more vertical. A sway-back usually means the belly juts out in front, so a little cloth is added there. So, It is sorta the same except instead of out front it is on the side. With a high hip that juts out you would add cloth there. The lower hip you would take away cloth, if you need to. With pins you can fit the side seams according to need.

You're right. Do I have a sway back? I kind of thought I don't, mostly because all the alterations suggested in the homesewing books for sway back never really made a difference that I could see. But in essence, my belly juts out. And as I had explained in the very beginning, my current sloper doesn't touch the hip bones yet, I put the waistline parallel to the floor using the measurement for the higher hip.

On Sunday I cosied up with Natalie Brays 'Dress Fitting' book and re-read the modelling exercises in the beginning. There was one sentence that basically said that a drag line meant not enough length. *Theroretically* I knew that, it just escapes my mind now and then. I then opened the side seams of the sloper one at a time and repinned it. Sure enough, my stomach was dragging to the front at waist level, creating the drag line, on both sides a different amount. Interestingly enough, when the bodice was open, it swung to the sides at waist level, making it look like a balance problem. Which it wasn't. Correcting the side seams also corrected the slight riding up in back neckline.

So now I am trying to figure out the mechanics of applying the corrections in the sloper to the next draft. Plus I came up with a few questions that I'll put in a new thread.




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