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Uh.... Help Wanted, regarding closed neck jacket collars.

Help wanted Collar drafting

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#1 Talon247

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 02:51 PM

Well... I've been busying myself with sewing a Mao style jacket for a critical project in college (and a modest but viable alternative to the lounge coat, which is also called a "business suit" and is too extreme to wear in our place.). I really need help with sculpting out the collar area, but the only patterns I found only accomodate stand and Mandarin-style collars (which I intend to stay away from to avoid offending some of my schoolmates who are in the sacristy due to the Mandarin's resemblance to the clerical collar).

I know that "Prussian" is the correct term for such jacket collars that look like dress shirt ones, but the only ones I found are only for greatcoats.

Any helpful material would be appreciated. So far the best patterns I found useful (but have no access to) are those for the Loden coat, the 1902 pattern Service Dress, and East German army tunics.

P.S. This kind of jacket was popularized in the 1970s by Western intellectual circles, hence glamorized by James Bond antagonists. So there is nothing to accuse me of costuming for this thread.

Some photos for reference:
https://thenanfang.c...ao-suit-01.jpeg

https://parisiangent...maosuit_2-1.jpg

The pattern I am working from:
https://static1.squa...ng?format=1000w

As glamorized by a JB villain (in this case, Blofeld):
http://www.jbsuits.c..._64798_zoom.jpg


A standard East German dress tunic for comparison:
https://www.tridentm...otos9/tn03b.jpg

The same tunic but with collar open:

https://image.sports...1/173048_ts.jpg
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#2 peterle

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 07:57 PM

I just want to say that the Mao collar and the tunic collar are completely different:

 

The tunic collar is convertibel and the collar stand fades out towards the center front.

The Mao collar has a stand at center front wich seems to be around 3cm in width.

 

When you have a pattern for a mandarin collar, wich is basically a collar stand, you should be able to develope a fitting turn down collar for it.

 

the pic shows this kind of collar:

a1-b1-e-d is the collar stand (about 4cm width in center back).

d-e-e1-d1 is the turn down part.

this is a two part collar

 

maokragen_zpsrpqtdyhz.jpg


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#3 Talon247

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 11:28 PM

Well... that could work.... But I decided to redraft the collar to resemble the military tunic due to its aesthetic factor both when buttoned up to the neck (Mao suits are always buttoned up in formal occasions) and unbuttoned (allowing the revelation of a shirt and tie like the Loden coat)

Actually, I am not really doing an orthodox photocopy of the Mao suit.... Say it more like of an ancient sports jacket (aka hacking coat) modeled on the lines of a Mao jacket/ GDR tunic hybrid (N.B. the Mao suit is basically an attempt by Oriental tailors to cut a civilian suit on the lines of 20th century military tunics, influenced by their traditions upholding modesty.) Even those with a minimalist taste prefer military-style jackets over lounge coats, as the latter emits an aura too severe for casual wear, that wearing one is a statement of power in Western tenets.

I would really appreciate if you have a draft on the GDR army tunic for comparison. Much better if it has drafting instructions to come with it.

#4 peterle

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 12:08 AM

abb 202 is what you´r looking for.

 

Rundschau_collar1-1_zpscunwyppp.jpg



#5 Talon247

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 08:00 AM

Well... thanks for sharing... but, does it come with drafting instructions?

#6 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 09:57 AM

H3 and H1 must be calculated correct.


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#7 Talon247

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 12:11 PM

Well... I meant the accompanying text showing a list of measurements and instructional details..... Like, how far A1 is from A, etc.

#8 Talon247

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 02:19 PM

abb 202 is what you´r looking for.
 
Rundschau_collar1-1_zpscunwyppp.jpg

Well... Any drafting instructions (and proportional measurements) to come with this? It would be quite useless without them, as I got used to MTOC. And I think I stumbled on a forum showing a tutorial on how to draft a lounge collar, Rundschau-style. But I forgot where is it in here.

Edited by Talon247, 06 July 2017 - 09:27 PM.


#9 greger

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 07:14 PM

I end up making mine own directions. And then there is shaping with the iron. Pieces cut out from old jeans and pad stitched is great for trial-and-error. Following other peoples directions can be a waste of time. I should write down my finished directions sometime. But, certain desired details can change, which means the directions would change. The shape of the Leaf, also called Fall, sometimes is best made larger, length and width; at the fitting the desired shape can be chalked, or better, cut. Be sure not to cut the persons ears, etc. The excess can also be folded and pinned several times until desired shape is found. 

 

There are a couple of measurements as a guide on the three in a row. The single, that peterle gave, also has information, not to mention the info he wrote just above the single diagram. What looks best on the customer may be different than exact directions. If you do this often enough you may end up drawing what you want to see as directions become less important. After all, neck sizes vary as do head shapes and overall persons body shape and height. The whole picture matters. Each style has certain requirements, but not necessarily exact numbers. 


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#10 peterle

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 08:12 PM

maybe this is a bit more informative.

 

Rundschau_shortlapel_zpsnwx52bxq.jpg

 

 

line through k and h2 is the prolonged lapel fold line,

H1-k = halsspiegel= back neck width,

right angles at k and k2

 

Rest is YOUR homework to do...


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#11 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 05:37 AM

Top collar has to be separated in Steg and facing.


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#12 Talon247

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 11:57 PM

BTW.... Just recently discovered these....

Quite similar to the diagrams above, only written in Russian. Can anyone help me by translating these into English (and repost these as the translated vesions)


http://pre12.deviant...ard-dbhulyl.jpg

http://pre01.deviant...ard-dbhulzc.jpg
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#13 Terri

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 01:31 AM

Generally speaking with labelled diagrams you can see exactly what they are doing.
It is nice to read the explanations for sure, but not essential if you are just trying to make a pattern of a collar to fit your needs. Try it and see if it works for the look you are after. If it doesn't, figure out why, and make changes.
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#14 Talon247

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 03:14 PM

Well... the explanations could be a lifesaver at times. They can save you from unnecessary setbacks from messing up royally with vital, fixed proportion measurements, considering limited time and budget severely strapped for trial-and-errror fitting, which I want to do as few times as possible.

However anyone working on translating those diagrams?

Edited by Talon247, 28 July 2017 - 03:16 PM.


#15 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 01:46 AM

I had a tiny exposure to Russian as a child, not nearly enough for that.  Though I can pluck a tune on a Balalaika


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