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Shirt: Hidden buttons


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#1 woutervw

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 04:20 AM

Hi,

 

I am familiar with the standard way of making a hidden button placket by folding the end of the left side and top stitching it, or making the 'double doors' that the buttons hide behind. 

 

Is it possible to construct the button closure of a shirt without the buttons showing, and without any top stitching showing too?

 

I considered making a facing with the buttonholes in it, but I think that would pull the facing into view. Alternatively, I could construct a double front, with the buttonholes in the 'lining' part of the front. That would potentially make the front drape strangely and add bulk. 

 

Any insights into tackling this?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Wouter


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#2 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 07:20 AM

Great question.


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#3 dpcoffin

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 07:33 AM

The only way I can so far imagine doing this would be with a double layer as you say, plus by using some careful, thin double-faced fusing in place of stitching…or with very tiny hand stitches. Something's got to be there to resist the layers gaping open with the slightest pulling or bending. A loose, drapey fit would no doubt be helpful…interesting! Lots of testing required!



#4 lepus

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 09:56 AM

Is this a theoretical or a practical question? The parameters of this task are not entirely clear to me. What material is to be used? Is the closure to be at centre front? If not, use a whole front and put the closure e.g. at side and shoulder, or at both shoulders, i.e. put it on over your head. Collar needs to be adapted of course.
If conventional left and right front, securing the facing seems to be the main problem. As Mr. Coffin said, using something fusible instead of stitching is an option, but it depends on the fabric what is acceptable. You could try the very thin, spider web like glue "lace" material, that is used to construct hems without sewing. Some qualities are suitable for thinner fabrics. Make sure to avoid straight edges to the web, they may show.
Another way would be to use a blindstitch, preferably by machine as this can be regulated very accurately (a blindstitch machine, I hasten to add, not a domestic machine with a special foot). Very thin thread of course.
If thickness is also to be avoided and outer fabric plus one layer of facing is the maximum, the buttons could be attached to the left facing, inside the left front. Fiddly in use, but possible.
It will be interesting to see what solutions are offered.



#5 greger

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 03:40 PM

You could put the buttons in back. That has been done before. Though you need someone else to button up the shirt.

#6 woutervw

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 07:11 AM

Yes, this is a practical request. I want to make a shirt with a front opening in the approximate middle, but not completely straight up and down. I do not want any stitching or buttons to show. I'm not opposed to do tedious hand stitching, if that is what it will take. But the fabric will have multiple, different colours, so matching thread to do stitches will be somewhat difficult.

#7 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 09:00 AM

Is the closure going to be definitely asymmetrical or of an irregular shape?

 

You could fold the closure overlap under and install the buttonholes in the underneath side then attach the underneath fold to the outer with tiny pick stitches or widely spaced, tiny fell stitches?


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#8 woutervw

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 03:22 AM

The closure will be irregular (following a shape in the fabric pattern on the front). 

 

Will those tiny stitches be strong enough? Will it not distort the front?

 

I guess some muslin-making is in my future to test out scenarios.

 

Thanks!



#9 greger

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 07:26 AM

It is better to have the hand stitches a little to loose than a little to tight.

#10 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 09:04 AM

If you pick stitch the under-fold the stitches will be very small, ideally only catching one outer cloth thread at a time and maybe about 0.5 mm apart.  With enough stitches that would be strong enough but they will tend to deform the surface.  That is why greger has said to only pull them rather loose.  maybe someone else has a good solution too.

 

G


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#11 peterle

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 07:10 PM

when your front edge follows the fabric pattern, you can also make the pick stitching along a pattern line. It´s not necessary to sew a straight line.


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#12 KristineS

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 06:01 PM

I agree with peterle, it is not necessary to sew a straight line. My aunt is a tailor and she stitches clothes for scrub manufacturing companies. She keeps telling me every other small things in stitching line industry. I am learning so much from her. Recently we made a visit in a scrubs company in Henderson to learn the techniques of clothes stitching machines.


Edited by KristineS, 08 December 2016 - 09:00 PM.


#13 woutervw

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 08:47 AM

I finally completed the shirt for which I requested this information. I opted for a double front with buttonholes in the inner layer. If you're interested, here is a write-up: The Singing Butler

 

Thanks for the help!


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#14 lngn2

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 09:13 AM

Wow!!! That is quite a shirt. Not to my taste but it's a really lovely work of art - kudos!

#15 fronno

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 11:05 AM

Wouter,

Thank you for the end results. A lot of work. Not my taste, but it is a beautifull shirt.



#16 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 06:36 PM

That front closure is very nicely done.

 

You have some fitting issues though, especially at the back .  

 

The arched fold that extends from the back pleat on each side down into the armhole is a sign of incorrect fitting.  Also the bunching up of the fabric under the arms is probably part of the same problem.  It means that the shape of the armhole (scye) could be a lot better.  This is why when  we begin a new pattern for a particular person we often make a toile or cloth model first,  

 

In your case I would recommend pinning out the bunches of cloth at the front and back scye until the fold start to look a bit more manageable.  You won't necessarily get rid of all of them because you wouldn't be able to raise your arms. the you could undo the scye seams and re-sew them after you remove the unnecessary cloth.  That would show off the visual at the front better too.

 

I bet most folks wouldn't notice any of that.  The design is really unique.

 

G


Edited by Schneiderfrei, 05 May 2017 - 11:44 PM.

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#17 Dunc

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 08:59 PM

Wow, that's certainly an interesting and radical design! Very impressive.

 

That front closure is very nice done.

 

You have some fitting issues though, especially at the back .  

 

The arched fold that extends from the back pleat on each side down into the armhole is a sign of incorrect fitting.  Also the bunching up of the fabric under the arms is probably part of the same problem.  It means that the shape of the armhole (scye) could be a lot better. 

 

In your case I would recommend pinning out the bunches of cloth at the front and back scye until the fold start to look a bit more manageable.  You won't necessarily get rid of all of them because you wouldn't be able to raise your arms. the you could undo the scye seams and re-sew them after you remove the unnecessary cloth.  That would show off the visual at the front better too.

 

 

It looks to me like a "virtual" dart (I'm sure there's a better term) is also needed in the yoke seam, starting from the pleat and reaching about 2cm at the armscye. The back armscye then needs to be moved down, of course. Unfortunately, making that alteration at this point would throw out the pattern match at the side seam...


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#18 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 10:53 PM

Yes I don't think I would do this on the current shirt. Too much water under the bridge.


Edited by Schneiderfrei, 04 May 2017 - 10:53 PM.

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