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Huntsman double breasted.


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#19 Frog in Suit

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 04:19 AM

I forgot to add that as far as I know, Huntsman are not, and never were, military tailors. They began, if I remember correctly, as breeches makers.
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#20 greger

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 05:42 AM

I think you guys are missing some of the content of military, which means a clean neat trim garment, which drape and other garments are not. To help give this appearance the structure inside has to be made to give that appearance and control, which doesn't mean wearing a turtle shell interlinings. The true drape cut has to be made up in a way that allows the cloth to drape. Poole makes a slightly draped coat, so the area in the drape part needs the freedom. The old blazers were made without much structure, in that since more like "drape". Numerous sports coats were, such as a norfolk, would usually be less structure. Some who like drape say these garments are more of a recrecational garment, not something to wear to the bank to get a loan, because it doesn't have the neat trim look that a "military" "cut" will have, but a more rumpled sloppy look (when you go to the bank for a million dollar loan you want to look tidy). What everybody calls drape on the internet, well, it is not all drape, some of it is semi drape. Having said that, where does coat structure come from? Armor?

Another point I think some of you guys are missing- there are different types of comfort. Instead of judgeing Mahones coats by looking at them perhaps you should go buy a couple to find out why people buy his coats. Like eating food - it is the taste that matters, not its looks. The way the coat feels matters. Is it possible to clean up the looks of the back a little, maybe. Does he know everything of fitting? If nobody does, neither does he. Engineering is part of tailoring. Not all of it. There are rules in this world, but which rules do you get rid of so you can have some others? An open mind allows you to choose, while a cloes mind leaves no choice. A cut that is not properly fitted doesn't make the cut bad just the fitting is not figured out or completed or forgotten. Engineering is science while art is nurmous philosophys. Clothes are art with some engineering (got to keep the horse in front of the cart). Some fashions are goofy; engineering allows art to be made.

This art professor showed a slide show to a group of artist (if you had taken his classes you would have learned much much more). Some of the paintings were horrid and ugly and I wouldn't want them in my house, until, he pointed out somethings in the paintings or explained the strory behind the painting, then it became- I'd like them hanging in my house for everybody to see. It is always best to understand art before judgeing it.

#21 Schneidergott

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 06:03 AM

Maestro Pirozzi does a lot of 30's style coats for his various customers, of which many are members of the Order of the Nine Gates, especially it's Gran Maestro.
My knowledge of Italian fashion history is not profound enough to judge whether or not the coats already had a waterfall sleeve back in those days.
Apart from that he often favours a very body hugging cut, equally often not very flattering.

That SB suit shown by carpu65 looks well made and I find it hard to believe that this tailor couldn't do a nice DB coat.
I find that many customers have a somehow blurred view of their own physique, so they often dream about and demand a style that cannot be done for them with a satisfying result.
That Pirozzi DB coat has a lot of drama to it, which is easier to achieve if the wearer has the right body for it. The same coat cut for a stout man would be by far less impressive.

800,- to 1000,- Euro is an insanely low price for a well made suit, you often pay (much, much) more for a completely machine made RTW or MTM suit.
Of course, it's fun for the customer since he saves a lot of money, but for the tailor it's much more work.

Is maestro Pirri working alone (probably from his own home) or does he have employees?

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#22 Muscle Car TC

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 09:27 PM

Maestro Pirozzi does a lot of 30's style coats for his various customers, of which many are members of the Order of the Nine Gates, especially it's Gran Maestro.
My knowledge of Italian fashion history is not profound enough to judge whether or not the coats already had a waterfall sleeve back in those days.
Apart from that he often favours a very body hugging cut, equally often not very flattering.

That SB suit shown by carpu65 looks well made and I find it hard to believe that this tailor couldn't do a nice DB coat.
I find that many customers have a somehow blurred view of their own physique, so they often dream about and demand a style that cannot be done for them with a satisfying result.
That Pirozzi DB coat has a lot of drama to it, which is easier to achieve if the wearer has the right body for it. The same coat cut for a stout man would be by far less impressive.

800,- to 1000,- Euro is an insanely low price for a well made suit, you often pay (much, much) more for a completely machine made RTW or MTM suit.
Of course, it's fun for the customer since he saves a lot of money, but for the tailor it's much more work.

Is maestro Pirri working alone (probably from his own home) or does he have employees?


As I said before, for a bespoke suit, Sartoria Pirozzi in Naples, Italy, starts at 2,430 (2818.80 and not 2,103.48; sorry about that currency conversion pricing mistake the other day), not 800-1,000 (928-1,160).

#23 Nishijin

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 06:03 AM

I am afraid I own nothing specific to making up military regalia. I have sadly seen nothing old or new in either the English language or German.

One thing I know is that a local Italian tailor made a coat for the New South Wales police commissioner - who, for a period of time a while back, was English. He brought in his Savile Row uniform coat to be copied. Apparently it "weighed a tonne" and was very heavily constructed.



I just haved a call from a friend of mine who used to work for a military tailor. As far as he knows, the internals of a French vareuse (the coat of Army uniforms) is treated the same way as a civilian coat, and employs the same canvases. The big difference was on the fabric itself, which is very heavy and cardboard-like. I then remembered a old piece of military fabric that my mother keeps, it is a kind of very strong cavalry twill, very heavy and rigid indeed. With this kind of fabric, there is no need for something unusual in the canvas, it is stiff enough naturally.

My friend told me that his master had a specific technique for interlining spencers, though (ceremonial wear), that produced very very stiff garment that kept perfectly in place however its owner moves. But this technique was specific for spencers, not for vareuses nor anything else. Sadly, my friend never made spencers himself, and does not know the details of this technique.
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#24 Frog in Suit

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 08:23 PM

I think "spencers" (if I understand correctly and precisely what a "spencer" is) may still be part of Mess Dress, at least for some UK regiments. I have seen short jackets that look very much like them in my tailors'shop.
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#25 Nishijin

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 08:48 PM

Yes, they are !
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#26 Schneidergott

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 09:01 PM

Quite a while back I was working for what was then already the last men's tailor in Bremen.
His former boss was dissecting an old Wehrmacht's officer uniform, which had been cut by his father.
The former wearer was very small and apparently not in the best shape. In the chest area I spotted a big piece of wadding and, unfamiliar with that sort of "enhancement" I asked the old tailor why it was there. "An officer has to have a good chest", he replied. "If he hasn't, the tailor gets him one!"
There was also a little waist band in the jacket to keep his belly in place.
Apart from those aids I couldn't spot any hard interior.
So I wonder whether "military tailors" really means a different way of cut and make or just that they mainly make uniforms.

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
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#27 greger

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 04:20 AM

In the chest area I spotted a big piece of wadding and, unfamiliar with that sort of "enhancement" I asked the old tailor why it was there. "An officer has to have a good chest", he replied. "If he hasn't, the tailor gets him one!"
So I wonder whether "military tailors" really means a different way of cut and make or just that they mainly make uniforms.


Adding wadding or extra flannel has been done for hundreds of years to give an ideal look. Mahone said a thin customer that wanted a thicker chest... what do you think Mahon did? Forward shoulder people have a sunken chest. Again, a bit of wadding gives the appearance of a normal chest by poofing it out. To hide a round back or a hunch back, wadding does the job. Ski slope shoulders- wadding flattens it out. During a good apprenticship this knowledge is passed along word of mouth and shown, so you don't read about it much. Some people call it camouflage. One of the reasons for a padded chest is so that it can be shaped to give a nice appearance, adding or subtracting cloth and canvas, different cuts, even different pad-stitching can achieve a better appearance on some people. Some customers want a certain look and the tailor has to use his imagination to achieve it.

"military tailors" really do have their own tricks of the trade for different uniforms. But, there are many ways to make up a garment, as long as they meet the requirements of the military, which is rather strict. A good fitter would make a softer coat, it still might be harder than uniforms. Others try to hide a poor fit by making the coat even harder. Back in the early 60s fuse was not common. By the late 60s even cheap coats had it. The hard fuse hide a multitude of fitting problems, but they were rather uncomfortable, which I think is part of the reason why lapel coats largely disappeared (people want to be comfortable).

#28 carpu65

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:15 PM

That SB suit shown by carpu65 looks well made and I find it hard to believe that this tailor couldn't do a nice DB coat.
I find that many customers have a somehow blurred view of their own physique, so they often dream about and demand a style that cannot be done for them with a satisfying result.
That Pirozzi DB coat has a lot of drama to it, which is easier to achieve if the wearer has the right body for it. The same coat cut for a stout man would be by far less impressive.

800,- to 1000,- Euro is an insanely low price for a well made suit, you often pay (much, much) more for a completely machine made RTW or MTM suit.
Of course, it's fun for the customer since he saves a lot of money, but for the tailor it's much more work.

Is maestro Pirri working alone (probably from his own home) or does he have employees?


I see this post just now.
My tailor (Mr Pirri,that unfortunately died many years ago, was his Maestro)makes a good DB coat,but in this style,for my taste, is less good that for the single breasted (that is excellent).
Luckily i have found another tailor for DB coat that make a dpuble breasted exactly as i like.
So now i have the first for SB coat and the second for DB.
Prices?
Tailor n-1 800 euros + the cloth (that i buy from a draper).
Tailor n-2 500 euros (yes you have heard 500 euros) for a suit (and 400 for only the coat) + the cloth.
Tailor n-2 is on Sleevehead's Guide to Sicilian Tailors (found it on internet).
And these are the prices in my town.

Edited by carpu65, 11 February 2013 - 02:33 PM.


#29 Schneidergott

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 04:13 PM

Starting price for a two piece suit here in the Rheinland is around 2500,- Euro and up, and I heard that 1 or 2 of the remaining tailors won't start under 3500,- or even 4000,- Euro (plus cloth).

Having a different tailor for each garment is a real luxury, Italian men are very lucky to have that, especially at such prices.

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.





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