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Shirt Draft Review - Help Needed


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#19 Elsastreprincipiante

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 10:30 AM

R.m.Bakker, so you're the author behind that article? Thank you very much for taking the time to compile all of that. It has been incredibly insightful! I also really appreciate the advice about the sleeve cap. One thing I'm still uncertain about though is how to draft the correct sleeve cap shape. I think I need to spend even more time thinking about and analyzing all of that information though to fully understand how to apply it. I do of course appreciate the idea of thinking about one problem at a time and trying to find the solution for that specific issue.

 

Speaking of one problem at a time, I have sewn together a quick revision taking into account splitting the body from the yoke and introducing additional fabric there. I have also added ease to the side seams per your recommendation, Posaune. I also dropped both armscyes 0.5cm. I have not yet modified the pattern specifically for my left shoulder as I first wanted to sort out the yoke and ease issues. From the new photos, it still appears as if I don't have enough fabric both in the front and back over my chest and shoulder blades but I'm not certain about it. Beyond that, I'm not sure where to next direct my focus. Should I now go about fitting my left should or are there more pressing issues? Just for reference, there is no seam allowance in the armscyes or neck.

 

front-open.jpg

 

front-closed.jpg

 

back.jpg

 

right.jpg

 

left.jpg

 

front-up.jpg

 

right-up.jpg

 

left-up.jpg


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#20 posaune

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 06:31 PM

yes, please do the alteraton for the left shoulder. The back is okay. The front needs more width and maybe a bit more length.
You cut under the armscye (Height of Bustpoint) horizontal and then vertical up into armhole. Let a little hinge there in the armhole..
You pull the little piece to the side. Making room maybe 1 cm over the bust point. A little darts open at side seam.
You cut then to the bust point from the hem up and move the long part up to the little piece so the more length (dart) is closed.
It will swing out.
If there are still pulls from the side to bust like in pic 4 you must open to the CF 1 cm too. You cut from bust point to CF.
And move the centerpart 1cm down and true the seams again.
You try the shirt on and decide how much you can pin from the front side seam from hem up to armscye without getting folds.
lg
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#21 amateursarto

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 06:40 PM

Pfaff260, Thank for the draft! I may give it a go. Is there an accompanying sleeve draft?
Regards,
Pete

Elsastreprincipiante, regarding your low shoulder:
There's a book written by David Carlin entitled, Alterations of Men's Clothing, and in it he describes how a tailor can alter a coat by raising the low side the appropriate amount and then scooping the areas where necessary, i e the armscye(s) and tapering the shoulder run.
In principle that's what you need to do with your shirt draft to alter for your low shoulder. Clarence Poulin described the same process in his book, Tailoring Suits the Professional Way. Roberto Cabrera does too, now that I think about it. His book is entitled, Classic Tailoring Techniques for Menswear. All authors stress the need to make adjustments incrementally, a little at a time. If you can find them, all are excellent books.
Pete

Edited by amateursarto, 22 July 2017 - 06:46 PM.

AMATEURSARTO

#22 Terri

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 10:45 PM

Also regarding the neckline.
At the cb it looks like the neckline dips down. The intersection of cb and neckline should be 90 degree angle. I would raise the neckline at the cb to square it off, and that will help with the collar issue you had earlier.
Follow Posaune' s instructions

#23 Elsastreprincipiante

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 04:17 AM

Posaune, should I first try to rectify the front fit issues or should I correct the left shoulder and cut another version first, before fitting the front? I think I understand you directions but I will have to spend some time reading them again to be certain I understand fully. If you happen to have any example photos of this, it would  be very helpful. I know Photobucket removed third-party hosting but I can host them on my personal website and provide you with links to embed here - that's how I've been embedding my photos so far. One step which I'm not completely certain I  understand was this sentence: "You cut then to the bust point from the hem up and move the long part up to the little piece so the more length (dart) is closed."

 

Amateursarto, I really appreciate the reference material! I'll take a look and see if I can find any of them. Do you favor one of them over the others? By the way, saw that you're from St. Louis. I'm originally from there myself and still make trips back somewhat often to visit friends.

 

Terri, I will definitely raise the neck at center back! It certainly seems to make sense as to why I was having issues with the collar. Hopefully that's a quick resolution for that issue. Thanks for spotting that.



#24 greger

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 05:30 AM

Hostek in his coat book has valuable info about fitting. 

The old time tailors cut the cloth once with inlays. At the fittings the cloth is shifted until it hangs perfect and pins are used to hang it together as they  pull out the basted seams for the adjustments. People who cut without inlays and find they need to shift the seam out further have no cloth to shift on to have to start over with new cloth. Inlays save a huge amount of time and money. Basted seams are not permanent. Just temporary. Once you have the fitted garment you use that to change the original pattern, or use it to make a new one. 

 

Some people spend days making new patterns and cutting cloth and sewing it up to find the latest ideas don't fit. The method above I wrote about takes a few seconds from one cutting. 


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#25 posaune

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 06:48 PM

Yes, you pin first at the left side under the yoke on front and back.
For all this you use the your mousslin.

After checking for the right amount you cut the armhole the same amount deeper.
Now you can adjust the front. Please the right side first. You can cut into the fabric if you like. You just cut over the BP up near shoulder and down to hem.
Try the shirt on. It will open over the bust point. measure how much. Then you cut to the side seam maybe 4 cm under the arm syce
You sew a piece of fabric under the long cut at one side. You spread the measured amount and pin it closed. And with tape fasten the armhole piece to
your shirt. Try it on. If there are still slanted folds to the bust point you may need a little more length.
(This part I have marked an with ?) But this maybe not neceassry, it might be we must adjust the shoulder first.

http://www.mediafire...tucnx/shirt.png
Here you'll find a little drawing. In the back pattern I show the hanging side alteration. You must do this to the front too.
lg
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#26 Elsastreprincipiante

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Posted Yesterday, 03:48 AM

Greger, that truly is a good idea about providing yourself with margin. I really need to take a look at some photos or read up on it. I'm never certain how to provide margin without affecting the fit. Of course it's easy in some locations but the armscye seems tricky. Is this  margin cutting technique better suited for the main body block or is it used in the entire shirt construction?

 

I started to rectify the left shoulder but I'm worried about the amount of fabric that I pinned out. I'm a bit uncertain as to what specific issues the lower left should is causing - that's to say, I can't see what fitment issues or drag lines are created that I'm trying to remove. The ones I am aware of though were those 45-degree lines across the back of the shirt. I had someone help by pinching the left shoulder fabric until those lines were removed. I ended up lowering the left should by 2.5cm (to clarify, I mean 2.5cm from the yoke and  2.5cm from the front of the shirt) but this seems very excessive. From the shoulder point I drew a line to the neck tapering down to zero at the neck. I then basted along this line. After trying on the shirt, it looks like it caused two new issues - the yoke now appears to be shifted and the neckline sits too high on the left. 

 

My primary question is how do I know how much to adjust the left shoulder point? What am I looking for? And my secondary question is, was I incorrect to use the shoulder to remove those angled drag lines from the rear? Should I instead remove those by adjusting the yoke to back body fit? Also, from the photo, my left shoulder drop looks very exaggerated. It's not such a drop but the photo makes it appear as such.

 

front-pinned-shoulder.jpg

 

back-dragline-removed.jpg


Edited by Elsastreprincipiante, Yesterday, 03:49 AM.

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#27 posaune

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Posted Yesterday, 06:35 AM

no, it is correct, I wrote above: Start with 1.5 cm. And you must deepen the armhole. And yes, it is much.
You can decide not to pin up all of this. It is your decision.
(Just take a ruler and draw a vertical line from left side shoulder top to right side. And look at position of ellbows right and left.
It maybe that you have a scoliose too. So your left hip protrude more to the side then the right.
Can't see because of the blousy trousers.
lg
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#28 posaune

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Posted Yesterday, 06:35 AM

pushed wrong button

Edited by posaune, Yesterday, 06:36 AM.


#29 Elsastreprincipiante

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Posted Yesterday, 06:59 AM

Ah ok, I understand. What about those 45-degree drag lines originating from the shoulder points now? Is that because the armscye is not deep enough yet? One question related to cutting the armscye to accommodate the new shoulder point on my left shoulder - how do I know how to cut the bottom of the armscye? You said to cut the armscye equivalently deeper for the amount I removed from the shoulder but I don't completely understand what it means. Should I simply move the armscye down on my patterns by 2.5cm and redraw the shape? In total I took out 5cm from the circumference so I'm not sure how I ensure the circumference remains the same.

 

I have also made the changes to the right side. I have not yet recut the armscyes because I'm not completely certain how they need to be cut as I mentioned above. I think I followed your instructions correctly on the patches and it seems to have cleaned up the chest quite a lot. Now however, I'm stuck with quite a worrisome armscye. I have no idea where to begin with it. Should I redraft with the current changes and cut a new test garment or should I make any changes to the armscye first? Also, I noticed a nearly vertical drag line on the right back now originating from the shoulder blade. Is this related to my messy armscye or is there additional action I should take? 

 

Also, I  do apologize for the wrinkles. I promise I'll iron the garment.

 

front-patched.jpg

 

back-patched.jpg

 

right-patched.jpg

 

right-up-patched.jpg


Edited by Elsastreprincipiante, Yesterday, 08:03 AM.

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#30 posaune

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Posted Today, 02:21 AM

what change did you do on the right side? And why?
A hanging side means the shoulder hangs deeper than the other. And not only the shoulder - the whole arm.

You said to cut the armscye equivalently deeper for the amount I removed from the shoulder
but I don't completely understand what it means. Should I simply move the armscye down on my patterns by
2.5cm and redraw the shape?
YES.

You will loose nothing from the circ and the form is exactly as the right armhole.



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#31 Elsastreprincipiante

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Posted Today, 02:44 AM

Posaune, I modified the pattern per your instructions - or so I thought. I cut from the hem up to the shoulder through the bust point. A seam opened and I measured the width across the bust point. I then cut horizontally from that seam across to the side seam, 4cm below the armscye and up to the armscye. This opened a seam as well. Then I basted in a piece of fabric down the long seam from shoulder to hem and fixed the maximum width as that measured at the bust point. Then I basted in a piece of fabric for the small horizontal seam from the bust point to side seam. Was tjis not the correct path forward? I was looking at the linked image you posted for reference.




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