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Why you shouldn't start coat making topics in the Basic Apprentices' Forum

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#37 ThomD

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 09:30 PM

 Still there seem to be a fair number of people in the pro area who say they aren't tailors (allowed), or don't know what some basic item is (strange).

 

I used to be a tailor, not anymore. When i trained, my first three months were spent on a bench, hand sewing for eight hours a day. How many who wish to learn would be prepared to do that, not many ( i guarantee after 1 week most would give up) yet they come on here and expect to learn how to make a coat. 

Think about it.

If you are not prepared to learn the basics properly in any trade, you will never master it.

 

Try spending a year on your knees learning to sharpen tools. 

 

It is an assumption that people want to master tailoring, or be promoted or anything.  There was this guy from Sweden who cycled to Everest, and climbed it without oxygen, he was probably self-taught.  Then he cycled back.  The mountain is these days clogged up with people who pay a huge amounts of money to be figuratively carried up the mountain.  I guess they enjoy the challenge which is there regardless of how you murder it.

 

I don't have any problem with people who want to jump into coat making, let them make a complete rubbish of it if they will.  They will learn something.  But from the perspective of this place, it is what they want it to be, can't see a thing wrong with that.  The internet is, however, inimical to gate keepers.  One can recreate the ethos of a 19th century apprenticeship, but the information can't be held back at the same time.

 

I did read my first post in the pro forum the other day, (discounting a few posts I had landed in from outside as searches).  It was on German buttonholes. So maybe we are better off stuck here.



#38 tailleuse

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 11:45 AM

 

 

 

 One can recreate the ethos of a 19th century apprenticeship, but the information can't be held back at the same time.

 

 

 

Oh, c'mon, are you 9 years old?  Are you sweeping floors and sleeping in a cubbyhole somewhere in the back of the shop?


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#39 ThomD

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 05:55 PM

Let me explain literally and figuratively to you.  If you literally made an ass of yourself, you would be resplendent in fur and have long ears.  If you figuratively did so, well you have that covered.

 

This place seems to be figuratively the apprenticeship system, there are masters who watch over apprentices, maybe you missed all of that. Check above your avatar.  But given that there are many people who want to sign up for apprenticeships and don't know where to find them, why would that be a bad thing.  The further good news is that unlike in the past, if you want to dive into whatever, or have a hunger for information, there isn't anything stopping one.


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#40 jukes

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 11:15 PM

There are no assumptions,the rules are clearly stated throughout this forum. If the rules do not suit your mindset, then look elsewhere. 


Edited by jukes, 03 February 2015 - 11:17 PM.

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#41 jukes

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 11:25 PM

 

What were you doing?  The same tasks again and again? Varied bits and pieces?  Granting a minimum time commitment (which would be what?) is there a "smart" way to learn tailoring?

Not only learning the different stitches, but learning hand sew in STRAIGHT lines with every stitch the same length and width, this included basting stitches. By the time you finished it was second nature, a needle could be threaded without looking and the length of cotton drawn was exactly the same size every time. This comes in very handy when you are a working tailor, as speed is a factor in earning a living.


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#42 greger

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 08:15 AM

ThomD, if I ran this place it would be different. But, having said that, some of the rules here I argued for. It is unbelievable what some people expect. Finally it became clear, for me, to point people to books to learn, and some even have serious problems with that. Some of the earliest stuff here has been deleted. Making beginners start with trousers certainly weeds out those who really don't have a strong heart for this. If trousers are so easy why don't you take a few hours to show how easy it is? Some of us have wasted time when we shouldn't have. There are a few people that I would have made exceptions for, and later find out some of them that wouldn't have been good. After a number of debates the owner decided what rules to have.
Is there a place in this world that doesn't have rules so it doesn't become a quagmire? We each come here for our own reasons and live with the rules as are. No place has perfect rules.
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#43 tailleuse

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 04:42 PM

Not only learning the different stitches, but learning hand sew in STRAIGHT lines with every stitch the same length and width, this included basting stitches. By the time you finished it was second nature, a needle could be threaded without looking and the length of cotton drawn was exactly the same size every time. This comes in very handy when you are a working tailor, as speed is a factor in earning a living.

 

There's a very good section in the forum on hand sewing. Are there any specific techniques you can add?  For example, did you train yourself to sew straight lines by using a piece of striped wool, or some other method, such as extending the thread and using it as a guide?  Did you develop the ability to sew uniform stitches using by holding the needle as described in the other section (your finger stops the needle, controlling the stitch length), or some other way?  As for the length of cotton, were you measuring it against  the length of your forearm? Any specifics you can provide will be helpful.


Edited by tailleuse, 05 February 2015 - 01:14 AM.

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#44 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 10:48 PM

That's a good point tailleuse, its not always easy for a very experienced professional to tell what a beginner may wish or need to know.

 

That kind of detail is fascinating and fills in a great background for us beginners.


Edited by Schneiderfrei, 04 February 2015 - 10:49 PM.

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#45 tailleuse

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Posted 05 February 2015 - 01:18 AM

That's a good point tailleuse, its not always easy for a very experienced professional to tell what a beginner may wish or need to know.

 

That kind of detail is fascinating and fills in a great background for us beginners.

 

The detail is often everything.  :-)  Sometimes we students can't grasp what's going on unless it's broken down. It's also probably the reason why at some point we need to have people show us things, not just read about them.


Edited by tailleuse, 05 February 2015 - 01:18 AM.

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#46 ThomD

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 07:57 PM

There are no assumptions,the rules are clearly stated throughout this forum. If the rules do not suit your mindset, then look elsewhere. 

 

I don't think that is stated anywhere.  You can't post about jackets. but apparently you can post opinions.  Plus I did not say the rules didn't suit me.  I just pointed out the assumptions, which are always present.  Rule are actually something I have professional experience of making.



#47 greger

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 08:28 PM

There were no rules at first. It didn't take long for a need. If the directions are already in a book point people that way. Somebody else already wrote plus diagrams. Maybe I don't care for everything in the books, but they are good for beginners. Writing directions takes time, not to mention drawing diagrams. If somebody else has already done it why am I doing it and not getting paid. Plus, looking at several books is an eye opener that you won't get from one person or group of tailors. Showing in person only takes a few seconds, but explaining with words over the Internet takes a long time. And beginners really need to start at the beginning.

Edited by greger, 04 March 2015 - 08:30 PM.

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#48 Schneidergott

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 04:11 AM

Look here: http://www.cutterand...p?showtopic=426

 

Scroll down to the bold green section!

 

 

There are four important rules for this forum:

1. You Must Use a Modern Cutting System (post-1940)

2. You Must First Learn to Make Trousers and Waistcoats before Progressing to Coats

3. Learners Must Obtain Permission from a Moderator Before Progressing onto Asking Questions About Making a Coat

4. Questions About Coats Are Only Permitted in the Advanced Apprentices' Forum


Learners must use a modern system because troubleshooting dated systems increases the difficulty drastically and is considered an advanced subject. Before being allowed to progress to discussing coats we need to have seen examples of your work, showing that you have first learned to make trousers and waistcoats. You can do this either by sending a private message to a moderator, or in a public thread. You will only get the go ahead to attempt a coat if your abilities are judged as being sufficiently advanced to be allowed to proceed to the next stage. The term "coat" includes all kinds of jackets, overcoats, and body coats both for men and women.

These rules are to help you, not to be mean to you. We want to see you gaining confidence bit by bit. We want to see you enjoying yourself. We also want to be rewarded by seeing the fruits of the effort we put into helping you. Making a coat is like climbing Mt Everest. We don't want to help you to kill yourself working for 400 hours trying to make a coat only to find that at the end of it, you have to throw it into the rubbish bin and start again. You are just going to be discouraged and disappointed. Either that or you will give up, but not before you waste a lot of our time as well as yours. Worse still, you might just get into the habit of making very shoddy coats ("something mother made me"). We also find it challenging to help people cut and make coats, or any other garment, so be nice and respectful to the more senior forum members here that give up their time for you, and always listen to the advice they give you.

So please, do not try to start your learning journey with coats of any kind. Threads that disregard this rule will be locked or deleted, because they risk wasting everyone's time.


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