Jump to content


Photo

How do professional shirt makers turn the collar point on shirts?


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 Lorna MB

Lorna MB

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 12 February 2017 - 09:23 AM

I have tried the Adriana Lucas method described in David Paige Coffin's book, where the seams are finger pressed one over the other and then turned over your thumb and also Pam Erny's method, where looped thread is caught in the seam at the collar point and pulled through.  While both methods result in a reasonable collar point there is definitely room for improvement.  I would be really interested to hear if anyone has a different method they could recommend. To interface the collar I am using a stiff cotton shirt collar canvas.  Thank you.


  • Schneiderfrei likes this

#2 dpcoffin

dpcoffin

    Apprentice

  • Professional
  • PipPip
  • 291 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brookings, Oregon, USA

Posted 12 February 2017 - 09:42 AM

I'd also be very interested to hear any other methods!

 

My experience is certainly not as a full-time professional maker or sewer, and so far my results following all the professional methods I know of that don't require expensive machinery or tools,
(like these:

http://www.veit.de/e...ning-part-wakf/

http://www.ferrarien..._ing/vp_ing.htm

)

…is that no matter how easy it looks when a pro is doing it, it's NOT easy to get quick, consistently excellent and uniform results without a LOT of practice.

 

Incidentally, my own understanding of point turning has completely changed over the years. Here's an article I recently wrote that details my current—and very much the best I've ever found—methods of choice for any point-turning challenge:
 

 
dpc

Edited by dpcoffin, 12 February 2017 - 07:51 PM.

  • cperry, Schneiderfrei and Lorna MB like this

#3 Claire Shaeffer

Claire Shaeffer

    Apprentice

  • Professional
  • PipPip
  • 189 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Palm Springs, CA USA
  • Interests:haute couture

Posted 12 February 2017 - 10:18 AM

This is the method I describe in Couture Sewing. Like David, I trim to a scant 1/4" and do not trim off the point.

 

Fold one seam allowance in place, sew with a few stitches; then fold and sew the remaining one in place. Press flat.

Use a point turner to turn the corner.

On a shirt the corner will rarely be too bulky, but if it is, take the stitches out, trim a little and start over.  

The stitches control the seam allowances so they can't rumple when the point is turned. I also use this on jackets, but trim less and grade the seams. I call it "taming" the corner. 

 

In the industry, there is a point turner tool which must be mounted on a table. Mine is much simpler than the one in the photo. They aren't real expensive if you make lots of shirts. They have two metal points; the collar is put on the lower point. The upper point is lowered to meet it with a foot lever, then the collar is pulled up over the upper point right side out. 


Edited by Claire Shaeffer, 12 February 2017 - 10:20 AM.

  • jeffrey2117, cperry and Lorna MB like this

Claire Shaeffer

Author, Couture Sewing Techniques

claire.shaeffer@gmail.com

www.sewfari.org


#4 greger

greger

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,116 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington, USA

Posted 12 February 2017 - 05:20 PM

Cabrera's book shows a method of turning corners when he shows making the breast pocket. While this is a bit different there are some good skills there combined with other techniques. When sewing the corner take a diagonal stitch instead of to the point. The diagonal stitch gives a little bit of needed space. I clip the end off, too. Pressing the seam open to the tip and then turning out. Do you want the top layer hanging over a tiny little bit? Butt edges are fine, but I would push the under edge under, just out of sight. If you can sew the underside barely short to provide a slight curl as all edges are to be slightly rolled inwards. Not enough to notice, except to the trained eye. 

 

Dave! That is a nice write up on the link you showed. 


  • Lorna MB likes this

#5 dpcoffin

dpcoffin

    Apprentice

  • Professional
  • PipPip
  • 291 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brookings, Oregon, USA

Posted 12 February 2017 - 07:53 PM

Dave! That is a nice write up on the link you showed. 

 

 

Thanks, greger; glad you thought so:)



#6 dpcoffin

dpcoffin

    Apprentice

  • Professional
  • PipPip
  • 291 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brookings, Oregon, USA

Posted 12 February 2017 - 07:54 PM

In the industry, there is a point turner tool which must be mounted on a table. Mine is much simpler than the one in the photo. They aren't real expensive if you make lots of shirts. They have two metal points; the collar is put on the lower point. The upper point is lowered to meet it with a foot lever, then the collar is pulled up over the upper point right side out. 

 

Claire, do you have a recent source for the simple foot-operated version I assume you're referring to? I last saw a link quite a few years ago, about $60, but haven't been able to find any current seller…



#7 Lorna MB

Lorna MB

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 13 February 2017 - 02:18 AM

Thank  you so much for your responses and for your generosity in sharing your wealth of knowledge and experience.  I plan to try out all these methods and will let you know which works best for me.



#8 cooleb09

cooleb09

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts

Posted 13 February 2017 - 08:54 AM

I have tried the Adriana Lucas method described in David Paige Coffin's book, where the seams are finger pressed one over the other and then turned over your thumb and also Pam Erny's method, where looped thread is caught in the seam at the collar point and pulled through.  While both methods result in a reasonable collar point there is definitely room for improvement.  I would be really interested to hear if anyone has a different method they could recommend. To interface the collar I am using a stiff cotton shirt collar canvas.  Thank you.

This may help: 

http://off-the-cuff-...hirtmakers.html



#9 greger

greger

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,116 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington, USA

Posted 14 February 2017 - 04:43 PM

Here is another partial piece of advice. Doesn't say much about the collar. A tiny bit about sewing it. 

 

Herbert Parson's book on Shirt and Cotton Garments: published by The Tailor and Cutter: about 1950


  • Lorna MB likes this

#10 Lorna MB

Lorna MB

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 17 February 2017 - 09:31 AM

I made two collar samples, one using advice from Claire Schaeffer and the other from David Paige Coffin. (I have tried turning collars using advice from the Off the Cuff blog; when I managed to get the thread to stay in place the results were exemplary but I couldn't get it to work every time.) Both samples were good and better than I've achieved previously but I really liked the idea of stitching the seam allowances in place and pressing before turning the collar.  I was really surprised that Claire advised using a point turner to turn the collar as everything I've read recently told me that professionals turn collars, they don't poke them out! However, using this technique I achieved practically perfect collar points on the sample and on the shirt I've made subsequently (with the help of David's all-encompassing shirt making books). Many, many thanks to forum members - this has taken my shirt sewing to another level.


  • Schneiderfrei and Dunc like this

#11 R.m.Bakker

R.m.Bakker

    Umsie

  • Super Pro
  • Pip
  • 54 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rotterdam
  • Interests:Bespoke Tailoring, Patternmaking, Shirtmaking.

Posted 20 February 2017 - 06:21 PM

protip:

 

when you reach the point when sewing the collar pieces together, stop sewing, lift foot, get a needle with double thread and push it through one stitch on one side of the machine needle, then around and back towards the open part again. put foot down and continue sewing around the corner.

 

This way, when you turn the collar you have thread hanging out the edge. pull both sides of the double thread, and you'll have a perfectly turned edge.

 

for extra crispness always sew with interfacing exactly the size of the finished collar.

 

After turning, make sure edges are slightly overturned so they won't show after edge/topstitching.

 

edit: in factories they use special machines which turn and press at the same time. 


Edited by R.m.Bakker, 20 February 2017 - 06:24 PM.

  • Jones, Schneiderfrei, Joretha and 1 other like this

Owner at Tailored.

Experienced Bespoke Tailor, Bespoke Shirtmaker.

Check out my blog, and business, at:

 

http://www.rubenbakker.nl


#12 Jones

Jones

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts

Posted 25 February 2017 - 12:29 AM

Like Greger said the method of not turning your stitch line at 90º but cutting the corner at 45º for two stitches makes a world of difference.



#13 Lorna MB

Lorna MB

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 25 February 2017 - 04:31 AM

Thank you to Greger, R M Bakker and Jones for their postings.  As soon as I have an opportunity I will make up a further sample following their advice.



#14 greger

greger

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,116 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington, USA

Posted 25 February 2017 - 11:51 AM

Bakker had a picture or two showing some really fine hand sewn stitching along the edge of the shirt collar. It is beautiful work. Didn't find it to post it here. It is rare to see that kind of work,  anymore. Some customers will pay extra for that kind of work, and it should be a high price for it. If people never see that quality, then they don't know to a$k for it. 



#15 Lorna MB

Lorna MB

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 28 February 2017 - 12:28 AM

I made a collar sample making two stitches  at the corner at 45 degrees but still found that the collar I made using advice from Claire Schaeffer to fold and tack the seam allowance before turning gave the best result.  However, I did find that using thread to pull the last little bit of the point out was helpful.  I checked out R m Bakker's website and I think the hand stitching on the edge of a shirt collar that Greger mentions above is included there - it is indeed beautiful work and certainly something I would like to aspire to.  Many thanks to all the contributors on this topic.


  • Schneiderfrei likes this

#16 amateursarto

amateursarto

    Pro

  • Senior Apprentice
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 559 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:STL, MO, USA
  • Interests:shirt and tie making, tailoring

Posted 06 March 2017 - 01:22 AM

This is what I found a few years ago.  Not expensive, (TL 153, or $41 USD, £33.59, 38.89), but shipping might be costly! 
 
 
http://igneiplikbura...ek-yaka-cevirme

Edited by amateursarto, 06 March 2017 - 01:33 AM.

AMATEURSARTO




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users