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#1 Kate XXXXXX

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 10:44 PM

Two gentlemen came to see me last night. They are planning their Civil Partnership for next October. They want something a little different from the usual, so they came to me after several tailors told them 'We don't do that sort of thing'.

They want coats along these lines:
http://www.longago.com/hdg03.jpg' class='bbc_url' title='' rel='nofollow'>Long Ago pattern

Reconstructing History pattern
RH example

(Style good, execution need more care)

Farthingales coat
More Farthingales coat
(Their comment: We don't want it to look home made, like that!)


Anthony Head looking rather swish, if a little somber:
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The coat shape is right, but we are aiming for wool:
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This is quite nice:
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Well, I'm sure you get the picture! There are a couple or three patterns about. Reconstructing History does one, as do Long Ago. I don't know how good the drafting is for either. I think with the addition of some proper hair canvas and careful work, I can do better than that blue thing that looks like it was cobbled together by somebody's granny and screams Home Made Costume!

Waistcoats look like being several shades of gold/plum/brown, trousers fairly standard fly front made in something like Hainsworth's Dress Barathea in black.

Suggestions for fabrics and findings welcome.

#2 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 11:21 PM

Barathea is straight out if they want it accurate as it did not come about till much later in the century. Haircanvas as well would not be used. This era would be canvased, padded, and a facing which extened almost the same size as the fore-parts. What time of year will they be doing this? so I can give a better example of what to use.
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#3 Kate XXXXXX

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 11:52 PM

NOT looking for historical accuracy, really. This is to be a modern fusion project covering elements from the Regency period that they like. Trousers will be modern. What they really like is the big collars and the tails. The rest of the coat can be a modern cut. We're looking for a gently elegant understated dandyish look rather than out and out Macaroni!

Silk brocade waistcoats and matching linings have been mentioned... And Ascots.

Oh, and the wedding is October. Browns, golds, oranges, plums, and such for the jackets and waistcoats, black trousers. That dress weight Barathea makes very fine trousers.

Just curious, but when was Barathea introduced? I know it's used for a lot of modern uniforms. And when I did the Redcoats project, they were Melton.

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Edited by Kate XXXXXX, 18 November 2009 - 11:57 PM.


#4 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 12:22 AM

Barathea came about during the 1840's as a mourning cloth, to my knowledge it did not become a fashionable cloth until the 1880's, as it had the whole association with death .

If I was to make this, you know, after I raised my own flock of indigenous period breeds of sheep, I would make these coats from superfine broadcloth, either a silk brocade waistcoat with a brocade faced poplin under vest (gilet), and trousers from kersey or Doeskin. I would pad with felt or perhaps a piece of horse blanket across the chest and sleeve heads, wad the sides and what ever with raw carded wool and attach the facing by first stoating allong the front edge of the fore-part and then turn and prick stitch the edges down. Then pad the collar and stoat it on. Lay the upper collar on and prick stitch to the under collar. At the M notch, I believe a cleaner and easier method is to do a square notch and then using side prick stitching make a "seam" along the top of the square giving it a clean M look. I would line the skirts with silk, tack the rear pleats with French canvas and bind this area in with fashion fabric to give strength and cover the linen and finish off with a nice bugcatcher across the shoulders and stoated in with the facing shoulder seam.

Also remember coats of this era did NOT have a waist seam. If you were going with about 1815-1820ish then a horizontal fish would be taken out at the waist line. Prior to this the tails and sides were taken out as one piece, the silhouette was accomplished by the padding and a little iron work.

Hope this helps

Jason
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#5 Kate XXXXXX

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 02:47 AM

I'm not aiming for that level of accuracy, as the lads want some of the details but not to look like they stepped out of a Jane Austen film set. I shall squirrel your lovely information away for future use, though.

I have some cloth samples coming, so we shall see... I also need to work up some design drawings, and maybe do them in several different colours so they can pick and choose what they like.

#6 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 03:06 AM

I'm not aiming for that level of accuracy



I know, just throwing it out there for anyone who wants it :) I fully understand how most people want the look but not the price, fit, feel of period pieces. Last thing I want is to be perceived as cocky, head strong and unyielding and forcing my view upon everyone.... well except in the case of the dinner jacket but that's understandable :p
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#7 Kate XXXXXX

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 03:19 AM

Ah, the evil that can be perpetrated in the name of dinner jacket... My darling papa always said he looked like an animated wardrobe in a DJ (Long body, broad shoulders, short legs). No 5 Uniform (mess kit) was much more flattering to his figure.

Luckily my two gents have no such problem. I'd say the smaller was average height, slim build, no spare flesh but not skinny, and the larger tops six feet and is sturdily built without being heavy boned or fat. The larger has one shoulder slightly lower than the other. That's easily dealt with. Otherwise, a visual assessment without measuring yet reveals no serious complications.

I'm getting all impatient for the samples to start landing, and I have still to send for some of them! I must get busy, after falling over sideways for the afternoon. I hates this fibro, and combining a flare with the flue jab for Pig Disease this morning kinda floored me. I shall build in spare days on this project, the two big weddings and the college student 5 suit project in June to cope with this sort of nonsense, or next year will all fall in a heap round about August!

#8 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 03:41 AM

I say commandeer the services of your boy, put him to work sewing buttons and straightening up the shop. that should help :
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#9 Kelley

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 03:47 AM

I'm in a hurry right now, but here's a web-site where you can access a pattern with notes for a similar coat : http://tidenstoej.na...dragt.asp?ID=86

I can dig out my translations when I get home if anyone would like.



Also, from the V&A :
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*some dyes have faded


And, the shirt, which is easy to make but can make a huge difference to overall look :

Posted Image
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Edited by Kelley, 19 November 2009 - 04:08 AM.


#10 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 03:58 AM

Thanks Kelly, I totally forgot about Tidens Toj having this coat.
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#11 Kate XXXXXX

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 04:35 AM

Kelly, thanks for the V&A pix. I was looking for them earlier and I couldn't make my link work. The last one is the one that is closest to what we want for this. I'd love to do the full historical look and construction, but with this project that isn't going to happen. They may buy wing collar shirts. I'm thinking that they need to look into that real soon now rather than discovering next August that they want me to make them! :Doh:

I'd forgotten to look at Tidens Toj. There's always splendid eye candy there, whatever era you want. That white coat is close to what I want too, so I have grabbed some pix and the pattern. It'll make good reference material if nothing else.

Edited by Kate XXXXXX, 19 November 2009 - 04:49 AM.


#12 Kate XXXXXX

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 04:46 AM

I say commandeer the services of your boy, put him to work sewing buttons and straightening up the shop. that should help :


He earns his pocket money doing chores, so he'd certainly do the tidying up and hoover the place... Not so sure about the buttons. ;) He's also working on exam stuff, so will be quite busy.

#13 I.Brackley

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 08:26 AM

Hello Kate,

This sounds like a fun commission; trying to blend the historical and the modern.

I was wondering though, your gentlemen, when they said they liked the "big collars" are they actually desiring an "M notch" collar? The customer is always right of course but I've encountered otherwise objective historians of costume forget themselves and slander it as "inelegant" or an ugly "missing link" between the stand-fall collars of the anciene regeime and the collar/lapel in it's present form. To me it looks neither fish nor fowl but that's just me.

If that historical detail is not amoung the ones desired then you might want to try a frock coat draft (for the DB closure) and simply change the shape of the skirts. The end result would be less slavishly imitative of period cuts and more contemporary at the same time (if using a late 19th-early 20thc. frock pattern).
Just a thought.
Ask the gentlemen if they wouldn't mind progress pics of their coats posted here.
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#14 jruley

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 09:15 AM

Well, I'm sure you get the picture! There are a couple or three patterns about. Reconstructing History does one, as do Long Ago. I don't know how good the drafting is for either. I think with the addition of some proper hair canvas and careful work, I can do better than that blue thing that looks like it was cobbled together by somebody's granny and screams Home Made Costume!

Waistcoats look like being several shades of gold/plum/brown, trousers fairly standard fly front made in something like Hainsworth's Dress Barathea in black.

Suggestions for fabrics and findings welcome.


"Men's Garments 1830-1900" by R. I. Davis has an 1830's tailcoat draft that might be usable. It's supposedly done by a modern tailor for a period "look" so it should be a workable draft. You can find the book here:

http://www.amazon.co...KBQD66QF8RS1940

If you're feeling more adventurous, you might want to give DeVere's 1866 system a try. Here are my own modest efforts on a tailcoat meant to represent mid-to-late 1850's. For a Regency style, you would probably want to narrow the back, alter the lapel and collar, and raise the waist a bit; but the basic draft should still work:

http://thesewingacad...hp?topic=2237.0

For fabric, I'm sure you are aware Hainsworth carries a broad range of colors in superfines, doeskins and meltons.

#15 jruley

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 09:23 AM

...and attach the facing by first stoating allong the front edge of the fore-part and then turn and prick stitch the edges down.

Jason


First, thanks for the quick summary of Regency period construction.

Second, I'm having trouble visualizing the part repeated above. All the references I've seen show "stoating" as a method of putting two pieces of cloth together FLAT, face down, with the needle going only part way through the fabric. The goal is an invisible joint on the face side. I don't quite get your description -- does the joint end up behind the turned edge of the cloth, with the prick stitching acting like topstitching? Or do one or both edges (body and/or facing) get folded under?

Or are you going to make me wait for your book...

#16 Kate XXXXXX

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 09:37 AM

That is very splendid and just what I need to show my two gentlemen. I've bookmarked the whole process. Thank you. It's good to see such a stitch-by-stitch account.

Thanks also for the book. I think I may just spend a little fritter money on that one! Don't want to wait for Christmas. I'll put it down as a business expense (training!) on next year's tax form!

You lot are very generous with your time and expertise. Thank you.

#17 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 05:50 PM

the joint end up behind the turned edge of the cloth, with the prick stitching acting like topstitching?


Correct. The stoating keeps the raw edges together and kind of binds the edge in the stitch whilst the prick stitch acts as the top stitch securing everything down. Should you place two raw edges together and just top-stitch, the subsequent raw edges would wear pretty quick. This type of construction was used with mill cloths whenever a raw edge was desired, all the way up until the Edwardian period, and pretty much went bye bye with the war.
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#18 wm m

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 09:24 AM

Ten Years later.....   Some of these links to the, what I think is the Danish Museum, do not work anymore.  Does anyone have these images or new references for what was on them?  I am grateful for the historic methods discussed above.






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