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German Drafts: Rundschau Shirt

Rundschau Shirt Block Translation

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#1 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 10:56 PM

I have drafted trousers before but never fully drafted a shirt.  Having observed the wonderful historical drafts shown on these fora I have decided to have a go at the Rundschau Shirt Block from the 50 – 60s posted by Sator 4th August 2009 ( http://www.cutterand...p?showtopic=329 ).

 

I love the sharp lines of this German shirt. In fact, my first favourite shirt strongly resembled this draft in some ways, there being no curved shaping to the sleeve and body that I have found in English drafts.

 

I made my translation of this page prior to looking at Sator’s translation notes that are posted with the image.

 

I would like to present my translation here (in the next post) with some comments that may help other non - German speakers to approach this same task. I do this hoping that there may be generated some discussion and comment also about my interpretation.

 

I found that there were a few differences between my original translation and Sator’s notes. Naturally, his usage was more sartorial! :Big Grin:


Edited by Schneiderfrei, 26 February 2014 - 11:25 PM.

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#2 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 11:05 PM

The Men’s Shirt (Text only)

Figure 164

 

 

Main Dimensions:                                                      ½                         ¼                         ⅛

Kg = Body Height                         176 cm                    88                    44                     22

Ow = Chest                                    96 cm                    48                    24                     12

Al = Arm Length                             76 cm                 incl. shoulder seam 16 cm
 

Auxiliary Calculations:

Hw = neck width                                        39 cm measured from the body

Sp = back neck                                         6.5 cm 1/6 neck width

at  = armscye depth over shoulder          23.4 cm 1/10 Ow + 1/10 half Kg + 5 cm

Rl = waist length                                       47 cm ¼ Kg + 3 cm

Lg = length                                              90 cm half Kg + 2-4 cm

Vl = front length                                       45 cm Rl - 2 cm

Ad = A' diameter                                   15.5 cm ⅛ Ow + 3-4 cm
 

Back  and Front — fig. 317
 

Draw a square from point A.  From here one measures: til RH (the rear armscye depth + an extra 3-4 cm), til TI the back length and until Lg, the total length.
 

After drawing off the squares, one must measure from RHBB half bust + 9—10 cm, with S found in the middle of RHBB.  From S is measured per 1/2 Ad (see Auxiliary Calculations) to AV and RB.

 

 

From T, til H1, the front length is measured upwards, and from H1 a square is drawn to the right.

 

NECK SEAM, SHOULDER, ARMSCYE:  The distance AW amounts respectively to 1/10 half neck width, the line Ah = SP (above).  From H1 h1 one must measure as much down as from AW.  The width of the neck seam H1H is Sp minus 0.5 cm.  The depth of h1H2 is just SP + 1 cm.  The distance aah and AtAh each amount to 1/10 half Ow minus 1 cm.
 

YOKE SECTION: From W, 4.5 cm are placed downwards and results in a right angle of the yoke seam to the armscye.  In the front, one separates off an approximately 4 cm wide shoulder piece, applying this to the back yoke as shown in the template.  Under the back yoke there are 2 cm to remove at the armscye.

 

PLEATS, FRONT OVERLAP AND SIDE SEAM: The mid-back is about 6 cm for the pleat and the mid-front a 2 cm wide addition to the front overlap. If the front overlap is not carried out to the bottom edge, then about 3 cm below T attach a 4-6 cm wide pleat.
 

Sleeves and cuff - fig. 318

 

Next draw a baseline angle and define K.  Then from KB measure ½ armscye circumference.  Measure the arm length: K is introduced from the shoulder seam and subtract 5.5 cm (the cuff) to obtain L.  On the left of the perpendicular line of LL1, half cuff width + 4 cm is provided and L1 is connected to B. From B C is measured 1/10 half of Ow + 2 cm downward and the sphere (curve of the shoulder) is recorded according to the template: the dotted line comes forward. The drawing of the side seam is according to the template.

 

The cutting draft of the cuff is according to fig. 318.
 

Collar Types – figs. 319-323

 

The detachable collar: Fig. 319 shows the cutting draft of the neckband. Fig. 320 the detachable, normal collar, the front flow of the collar is where to adjust for the respective mode.  The regular seamed collar is indicated in fig. 321.

 

Collar setting for high neck is in fig. 322, and can be seen on the line A-a. The collar installation of for short neck is located on page 136 (though it has been kindly pasted into the bottom section of this main body front draft).

 

All seams have yet to be added!

 

137


Edited by Schneiderfrei, 01 March 2014 - 10:57 PM.

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#3 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 11:10 PM

So, :yes:  

 

Winkellinie, I had as ‘Perpendicular’, should rightly be ‘Square’

 

Sp Spiegelbreite = mirror breadth = Back Neck

 

Hintere Armtiefe = Rear arm depth = Armscye Depth over Back

 

Rl Rückenlänge = Back length = Waist Length

 

Halsloch = Neck hole = (gracefully) Neck Seam

 

Then there are some German words that took me a bit of effort to boil down.

 

Vorlegen: introduce, present (begin at), Thus at the sleeve section vorlegen means that you ‘introduce’ or begin measuring from the end of the shoulder width, which you derive from the block.

 

jeweis I think must mean ‘respectively’ I could not find this in any dictionary.

 

There is a symbol in the table, Vl (Vorderlänge), repeated on the illustration, which looks like what I would read as a slanted ‘divide’ symbol (and which I cannot find in my Word symbol list) but must in fact stand for ‘subtract’.  Subtract 2 cm from the waist to obtain the front length.

 

 

Then I could not really figure out the method for the cuff development.  Where does the 13cm come from. And as a matter of fact this phrase, from the Manschette section, has stumped me altogether: 'nach links gestellt.'  I welcome a good rendering. :Praying:

 

Also where does one apply the at measurement i.e. (hintere Armtiefe) is this a trap laid to route out non professionals?? I have thought to look within Sytner to see how this measurement may be applied.


Edited by Schneiderfrei, 26 February 2014 - 11:14 PM.

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#4 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 11:16 PM

I am of a portly build and found that the calculated Armscye gave me great misgivings.  I redrew the Rh measurement omitting 3 cm ease and I am much happier with that.  I intend to make up a toile soon.


Edited by Schneiderfrei, 26 February 2014 - 11:22 PM.

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#5 pfaff260

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 04:06 AM

jeweis = jeweils = respectively


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#6 napoli

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 05:17 AM

thanks per posting, will studiate it soon.
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#7 peterle

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:04 AM

So, :yes:  

 

Winkellinie, I had as ‘Perpendicular’, should rightly be ‘Square’

 

"Winkellinie ziehen/zeichnen" means draw a line at right angles. "Winkellinie " is a short for Linie im rechten Winkel and means line in an 90 degree angle.

 

Sp Spiegelbreite = mirror breadth = Back Neck

 

Hintere Armtiefe = Rear arm depth = Armscye Depth over Back

 

Rl Rückenlänge = Back length = Waist Length

 

Halsloch = Neck hole = (gracefully) Neck Seam

 

Then there are some German words that took me a bit of effort to boil down.

 

Vorlegen: introduce, present (begin at), Thus at the sleeve section vorlegen means that you ‘introduce’ or begin measuring from the end of the shoulder width, which you derive from the block.

 

Not easy to translate and the dictionary translations don´t fit at all in this connection. "vor-" means pre- and  "legen" means to put, lay down. The text (and drawing) wants you to lay down your band measure in a way that the length of the shoulder seam (h-ab) extends above piont K. it´s a mechanical subtraction.

 

jeweis I think must mean ‘respectively’ I could not find this in any dictionary.

 

There is a symbol in the table, Vl (Vorderlänge), repeated on the illustration, which looks like what I would read as a slanted ‘divide’ symbol (and which I cannot find in my Word symbol list) but must in fact stand for ‘subtract’.  Subtract 2 cm from the waist to obtain the front length.

 

This symbol usually means "percent" but to avoid confusion with " -  " Müller uses it for minus. so " % 3-4cm" means " minus 3 to 4cm".

 

 

Then I could not really figure out the method for the cuff development.  Where does the 13cm come from. And as a matter of fact this phrase, from the Manschette section, has stumped me altogether: 'nach links gestellt.'  I welcome a good rendering. :Praying:

 

The text doesn´t mention the origin of the 13cm. I think it is the half of the joint measure plus some ease and overlap. "nach links gestellt" means "measured to the left". By the way Bruch means fold line and Stoffbruch means fabric fold line.

 

Also where does one apply the at measurement i.e. (hintere Armtiefe) is this a trap laid to route out non professionals?? I have thought to look within Sytner to see how this measurement may be applied.

 

Text says to measure from point  A. Measure at (23,4cm) plus another 3-4 cm ease (will be 26,4-27,4cm from A to Rh in the original draft).


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#8 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:40 PM

Thank you very much Pfaff260 and Peterle,  

 

Peterle, I am still unsure about "nach links gestellt". Where are we measuring left from? Does it mean to measure when the piece is folded or spread out? On one side of the fold or both? Like the different curves, front and back, at the sleeve base where it meets the armscye.  Or is it 4 cm applied to the folded cloth on both the front and back sides?  I hope my question makes sense actually.


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#9 posaune

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 03:15 AM

You draft the width of half sleeve 1/2 of cuff width and 4 cm. And you draw it from L to the left side of the drawing.L1

lg

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#10 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:44 PM

Thank you very much posaune. So, one is looking at the drawing desk from the cuff end of the draft!!  That's great.


Edited by Schneiderfrei, 01 March 2014 - 01:46 PM.

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#11 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 11:07 PM

One of the biggest lessons I have learnt by making this first draft is has much I have hidden behind over-sized shirts for so long.


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#12 peterle

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:37 AM

The Rundschau text is considered to be read by a professional audience and does´nt mention the basics.

 

so I will demonstrate what you have to do to get the sleeve and cuff pattern.

 

First of all: draft on paper, not on cloth. after first fitting you can apply all the changes to the paper pattern for the next shirt. Use sturdy paper like kraft paper, not the flimsy stuff homesewer´s pattern are usually made of.

 

Fig. 318 shows two drafts, half the cuff and half the sleeve.

 

First draft the cuff pattern:

Take a piece of paper at least 30cm long and 16cm wide. fold it in the middle to have a square of 15 x 16cm. the fold is called Bruch in the drawing.

Draw the cuff according to the illustration working from the fold to the left and keep in mind that you will have to add  a seam allowence (SA). The SA is added by drawing a second line parallel to the seam lines in a distance of  usually 0,75cm.

Now follow all the lines with a tracingwheel to copy  the drawing to the lower half of the paper. Now you can unfold the paper and you will see the complete cuff pattern, left side drawn in pencil, right side in tracingwheel perforations. Cut out the pattern at the outer SA lines. The narrower edge will be attached to the sleeve. This will be a french cuff (right term?) to be worn with cufflinks. Casual cuffs will be around 6cm wide.

 

The sleeve pattern:

 

Also start with a folded piece of paper, big enough for the sleeve and it´s SAs.

Start drafting at point K which is around 2cm inwards from the upper paper edge (wider SA). Draw a line starting from K to the left, right angled to the fold line( Winkellinie). On this line measure half the Armscye seamline ( measured on the front, yoke and back pattern) to get point B.

Now measure distance h-ab of the yoke pattern (lets say it´s 16cm) and put your band measure on the paper in a way that it extends 16cm above point K ( vorlegen) and make a mark at the fold line at 70,5 cm of your band measure. This will be point L. Less confusing methode is to measure 64,5 cm (wich is 76cm minus 5,5cm cuff minus 16cm shoulder).

Draw another right angled line in L. To get L1 measure 17 cm from L to the left (nach links stellen), wich is 13cm cuff length plus 4cm for the sleeve folds.

Connect B an L1.

C is located 1/10 of half chest measure plus 2cm downwards fom B.

Draw curved arm seam line according to the illustration. full line will be located on the back of the shirt, dotted line will be on the front.

Draw the slit according to the illustration (13cm long, 6cm inwards from L1 and parallel to foldline).

Now copy the dotted crown line, the straight sleeve seam line, and the cuff attachment line to the lower paper layer by tracing wheel. Dont copy the slit, it will only be on the back side of the sleeve.

Unfold paper and add the seam allowances. Cuff seam will have 0,75cm SA, sleeve SA and crown SA will be wider, because they will be sewn as french seam or felling seam.

Cut out.

 

It´s up to You, wether You add the SAs directly to the paper pattern or not. Once you have the perfectly fitted pattern its easier to have the SAs added on the paper pattern.


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#13 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 11:19 AM

I am truly grateful for your taking the time to respond to my post.  

 

I have been using light card to produce cuff, collar and pocket patterns, Mostly copied from Coffin's book or made up by myself.  I have never had access to any proper draft before and I am really happy to be able to do it. For most other drafts (trousers) and patterns I have used unglued interfacing.  I can see that paper is more precise and using a tracing wheel would not work but I will have to find some paper that I like first (I never would use flimsy home sewers paper :no:  ).

 

I did not think to fold the paper, especially for the sleeve.  This may be because I have not made a shirt with an asymmetrical sleeve before.  

 

You can be certain that I will employ these methods.


Edited by Schneiderfrei, 02 March 2014 - 11:20 AM.

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#14 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 09:33 AM

I am wondering about the 6cm that are added to the back draft.  I have worn full garments for ages but when I think of 6cm to each half of the back measurement this seems really big.  Why would one want that much extra, to write it in to the basic draft?


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#15 posaune

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 08:34 PM

This is a box pleat. You can do it - but for the fit with an ease about 9-10 cm for 1/2 bust it is not necessary. Or you can sew it close and step it down. It was fashion in those days. Today you have little pleats at the side.

lg

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#16 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 10:02 PM

Thank you posaune, I thought it must be but it is quite a large box pleat indeed. All the shirts I have made recently I have only allowed 4 cm just as you say in little pleats to the side, though an equally small centre pleat was the fashion in the 80s and 90s.

 

I think it is quite masculine for a shirt to billow out at the back.  I have a few years ago made an 18thC shirt that is gathered  in great handfuls around the neck and cuffs it is very billowy but also feels really masculine to wear today. I don't mind looking a bit different sometimes.

 

I want to begin to understand fitting and have made a toile of my draft that omits all pleats.

 

I know that others have presented shirts in these fora.   I hope that I may do so here too when I have got things together.  

 

I have an ability to stitch and manipulate fabric but I know that my understanding of fitting is almost non existent.  I would treasure any advice that you or any other members may make.


Edited by Schneiderfrei, 03 March 2014 - 10:08 PM.

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#17 ladhrann

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:25 AM

As a matter of interest what type and weight of interlining are you using?  

 

 

For those tailoring shirts in the EU please chime in with recommendations for woven cotton sew-in interlinings as well.



#18 gramountoto

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 04:10 PM

I have found an easy access to DHJ top quality sew-in interfacing : a shirt maker in Paris. She sells cuts to private individuals (around 11euros ex VAT). PM me if you want her contact.

This is really good stuff and I obtain really satisfying results however this is not that stiff and I'm still looking for something more rigid. For example, the plastic collar stays show through a little bit as the collar is so soft.

 

Maybe starch is a possibility... Has someone already used it on shirt collars ?

 

The ideal would be to fuse a thermofusible layer to the sew-in but without a professional therrmofuser just forget it. There is a thread about that and a DHJ guy confirmed to me that 3 bars pressure is mandatory (mind your fingers...).

 

DHJ sells 100 meters pieces. So maybe a group order of thick sew-in would be the solution...

 

By the way I have 3 meters of fusetop (DHJ best quality) that I can't use (no thermofuser on my little piece of rock) so in case someone is interested...


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