Jump to content


Photo

Pocket placement, construction on an overcoat


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 Lewis Davies

Lewis Davies

    Apprentice

  • Super Pro
  • PipPip
  • 302 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:32 PM

So I've always made jackets trousers and best but not an overcoat, I can make pockets the non bespoke way but I wondered was tere a special way to make the pockets as the materiel is so thick? And
I'd like to place the pocket along the hip line a little lower that usual and wondered if anyone had any thoughts in this?it would interfere with how I cut the dart and pocket as well.
I thought I could have a stand alone front dart and ten place the pocket at the very bottom ?

#2 Nishijin

Nishijin

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,704 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Paris, France.
  • Interests:Mainly tailoring it seems, but my friends know better...

Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:58 AM

I make them the same way as on undercoats (jackets).

The thickness means the jets need to be a tad bigger (I make small jets on light cloths). With a 500g coating, you can manage 5mm jets. With 1000g melton, I need 6mm or 7mm.

You have to make the jettings by hand (opening the seam with the iron, then backstitching in the ditch), because if you make them like a Reece machine, there is too much thickness.

On overcoats, I like to make the flap pockets without a jetting over the flap (real flap pocket, not convertible flap/jetted pocket). It makes it thinner.
http://www.paulgrassart.com

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
Mark Twain

#3 Nishijin

Nishijin

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,704 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Paris, France.
  • Interests:Mainly tailoring it seems, but my friends know better...

Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:13 AM

I thought I could take pictures, I then I remembered Jukes' jacket project.
I make the overcoats pockets just as shown here :
http://www.cutterand...topic=854&st=18

When making the jets, you have to be very careful with the hand to pull the cloth as much as possible, to make a thin jet, but not too much so that it stays flat and has no undue tension in it.

I fold and baste the jets in place while taking the coat from the back side, but reaching inside the pocket mouth so that I see the jet I'm making from its front side.
I'll try not to forget taking a picture next time I make some.
http://www.paulgrassart.com

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
Mark Twain

#4 Schneidergott

Schneidergott

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,681 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland

Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:02 AM

I always thought that for thicker material (fluffy as well as heavy) it's a good idea to place the piece of cloth for the welt a tad away from the pocket mouth:

Posted Image

Since you press the seam (shell cloth and welt) open that would allow for extra "room" for the welt to fold over the seam allowance.

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#5 Nishijin

Nishijin

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,704 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Paris, France.
  • Interests:Mainly tailoring it seems, but my friends know better...

Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:59 AM

That is a good idea.

I usually make my pockets with the jets made from 1 piece of cloth, instead of 2 (for no other reason except that's how I was taught).
For an overcoat, it is too thick (you get 1 layer more on the side of the pocket), so I use 2 pieces, as shown by Jukes. Sometimes, I trim the seam allowance, but I never thought of just using a smaller one on the jet.



Another thing I forgot : when you have a flap, it is a good idea to leave a small space between the jets, to accomodate the thickness of the flap.
http://www.paulgrassart.com

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
Mark Twain

#6 Nishijin

Nishijin

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,704 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Paris, France.
  • Interests:Mainly tailoring it seems, but my friends know better...

Posted 30 November 2012 - 08:29 AM

Darts :

There are so many ways to place darts on an overcoat, I don't know how to start an answer...


I find that stand alone darts create distortions under the hip level that are not always easy to correct. Of course, the standard way is to shrink the cloth, but sometimes I'm not satisfied. If you have a horizontal pocket (or even a small bias one), I find the Ostinelli side panel very, very usefull to get a clean result.

Of course, it depends on the design. If you have raglan pockets, you can't cut an Ostinelli side panel, and have to find another way. Same problem to create a Donlon wedge, BTW.

That's the fun of overcoats : each one is different, and you have to find a way. That's also why I charge more for an overcoat than for a coat.


Now, I say that, but I haven't made a lot of overcoats yet. I'm only ordered a few each year, and I haven't been doing this for many years yet :Big Grin:
http://www.paulgrassart.com

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
Mark Twain

#7 Lewis Davies

Lewis Davies

    Apprentice

  • Super Pro
  • PipPip
  • 302 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:44 PM

These are all great ideas, I think I'll sample
Them and I'll upload some pictures.
Yeah I want to insert straight flap pockets
I usually use a side body so I usually place the pocket at the dart
Ill have a think and see what I can some up with. I'm going to make a single breasted button 3 in a nice Dormeuil coating I brought.

#8 Nishijin

Nishijin

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,704 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Paris, France.
  • Interests:Mainly tailoring it seems, but my friends know better...

Posted 02 December 2012 - 06:19 AM

I my (limited) experience, there is no problem with the underarm dart. I usually make it a little longer than pocket level, but it looks good. Usually, the end of the dart is covered by the pocket flap.

The buldge that the dart makes is well placed on the hip, so there is really no problem with it.


The trouble is the front dart. I've tried making a fish dart, like on old-style lounge coats, but the bulge it makes at hip level has no anatomical equivalent, so it need to be shrunk. Overcoating are easy to shrunk under the iron, but I've had bad surprised when simulating a little rain on the coat. That is why when I have a "cross" pocket (straight pocket or hacking pocket), I like to cut an Ostinelli side body. The front dart can be "rocket shape", like on a modern lounge, and it is possible to cut a donlon wedge in the pocket mouth too.

Of course, the Donlon wedge itself can be cut in the pocket mouth with just 2 darts (I think it is pretty standard in many overcoats drafts), provided the underarm dart reaches under pocket level. But I think having 3 seams make it easier to have a very smooth waist suppression.


If you want to have the bottom coming in (for example, for a covert coat), instead of having some widening, you can of course do it the usual way using the underarm dart and a fold in the pattern.



If you're more confortable working with a side body, well, you have precedent from a master :
http://www.cutterand...p?showtopic=710
http://www.paulgrassart.com

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
Mark Twain

#9 Lewis Davies

Lewis Davies

    Apprentice

  • Super Pro
  • PipPip
  • 302 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 12 December 2012 - 07:43 AM

http://www.karlmatthews.co.uk/blog/
i stumbled upon this recently and i must say the picture was very revealing to me : )

#10 Torry Kratch

Torry Kratch

    Apprentice

  • Senior Apprentice
  • PipPip
  • 320 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 12 December 2012 - 05:56 PM

Thank you! Indeed very significant. Nice and interesting to consider. Blog --- landmark work properly.

#11 Lewis Davies

Lewis Davies

    Apprentice

  • Super Pro
  • PipPip
  • 302 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:23 PM

I remember Karl from Savile row he was at Anderson for many years so I think I will follow this method. :) very happy what some searching on the net will do

#12 Nishijin

Nishijin

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,704 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Paris, France.
  • Interests:Mainly tailoring it seems, but my friends know better...

Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:21 PM

http://www.karlmatthews.co.uk/blog/
i stumbled upon this recently and i must say the picture was very revealing to me : )


If you extend the underarm dart a little longer under the pocket mouth (but not longer than the flap), you can even place a Donlon wedge and make the front dart "rocket shape", for a cleaner front.
http://www.paulgrassart.com

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
Mark Twain




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users