Modern Jacket Length calculation
Posted 27 October 2013 - 05:14 AM
Traditional jacket lengths varied slightly over the years, but were generally within a couple of centimetres shorter or longer. Now it visually looks as though it could be 4cm or more shorter than a traditional calculation of length.
I am not talking about the worst examples of this trend, but asking whether there is a new length calculation for a moderate modern stylistic change.
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Posted 27 October 2013 - 05:38 AM
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Posted 27 October 2013 - 12:59 PM
1/2 Body hight minus 9.5cm for a lounge coat
I would not make them shorter as the slimming effect of the fronts are getting lost. The fronts are even 1.5cm longer than the back. But everybody has his free will and taste and can do whatever he likes.
Germans published 70 years long, until today, short potato sacks with no waist suppression in the drafts, whilst in London was made a fashion style. Funny is, the Germans were able to scientifically draft those ugly coats on the millimeter, whilst in UK were produced fashion with 3 fittings. Unfortunately the German potato sacks does not have a sign on the back, stating that they were drafted and made with 1 fitting, as a compensation for nasty German taste. The East Germans were even worst, cause they attached the side pockets grand-father like so deep (20cm from the hem) to produce the Super-Potato Sack for 65+ customer.
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Posted 27 October 2013 - 04:59 PM
I don't think there is a new calculation involved.
What I've seen so far is just putting the "bigger" size label into the coats, which makes them fit tighter. That's why all the construction lines move upwards as well, not just the length.
The general length calculation I know of is 1/2 body height minus 10 cm, which changed to minus 12 to 13 cm in the 70's.
Perhaps the easiest approach would be to find an average measurement you add to the back length (which can be measured or calculated).
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"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"
Posted 27 October 2013 - 07:46 PM
The October 2013 edition of Rundschau calculates the jacket length for the 2013-14 silhouette as 1/2 body height minus 12-13cm.
In 2003 it was 1/2 body height minus 11.
So I guess over 10 years, if we take Rundschau as a barometer of trends, standard lengths have shortened by 1-2 cm.
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Posted 28 October 2013 - 07:23 AM
It's true that the buttoning point and pocket placement are proportionately higher as well.
If they are putting the larger size labels into smaller jackets they must have shifted 2 sizes!
I wonder if the average or median height used to determine proportion has been changed over the years? Used to be 5'8".
I just seem to be seeing more and more heights of 6' plus.
So if we take the 2013 Rundshau as 1/2 h minus 12-13 for length, I assume that would be for a regular size, not a tall?
Posted 28 October 2013 - 08:12 AM
1/2 body hight [cm] minus 10cm is a proportional calculation and works for any person's body hight.
I would tend to make the coat 5mm longer.
The proportional hight of a person was set to 176cm (5ft 9.29133in) for the reason of straight calculations without subdivisions.
Posted 28 October 2013 - 10:38 PM
If the modern Rundschau is saying 1/2 height minus 12-13 cm, basing that on a 176cm height means more like subtracting 1/14 height.
If I have a 194 cm height (6'4") the jacket lengths could be as long as 87 cm (34 1/4") at minus 10cm, at minus 1/16 it is 84.87cm (33 1/2") and at 1/14 it would be the shortest at 83.15cm or (32 3/4"). So a difference of close to 4cm or (1 1/2").
This is all theoretical because it all depends on the customer and the style they are looking for.
Tony, thanks for the modern Rundshau info!
I haven't looked at any newly published drafting books lately to see if the shorter jacket trend is being adopted as a standard.....I am unlikely to buy them anyway as modern is not necessarily what I am doing.
I suppose if I were, it would be useful to go and check the lengths offered in a store or online.
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Posted 30 October 2013 - 11:37 AM
Tend to think the customer Is right. As Poulin says get the shoulders right and some other fitting areas correct and then think of the side seams (waist indent) and hem and button stance height. Everything matters. 1-D gives certain numbers. 2-D adds even more numbers to consider. What really gets tricky is 3-D. And 3-D is what tailoring is. 2-D and less is mtm and mass produced. There is lots to juggle including head size and shoulder width to give the person the best appearance. People who do a short hem length with out adjusting the rest are the ones putting out the not so great looking. I believe the later half of the 1800s (1870s?) are a bunch of short coats and how it worked with their trouser styles. I'm not a believer of fitting only the coat and then only the trousers but as a whole and sometimes including the hat, not to mention the character of the personality to wear it.
Posted 25 November 2013 - 08:12 AM
The standard s that are rulled by formulas are fine for ready to wear.
Because ostandard sizes.are needed.
But I think most here are either custom/bespoke, or made to measure.
That means that the customers body proportions are what rule.
Posted 30 December 2013 - 08:07 AM
Tailoring is to cover the unproportion of a customer with proportion as well as possible at least in the length measuring.
1/2 Kph - 10cm is mostly correct. Minus 12cm, I would say is too short.
Edited by Der Zuschneider, 31 December 2013 - 01:51 PM.
Posted 30 December 2013 - 11:22 AM
Well, there is, sort of to say, a general rule, the problem is- which one? So, pick one. But it is sorta like lapel widths, which one is correct. If your customers walks out the door because you won't budge how are you going to stay in business? But putting aside fashions what about those with long legs, do you want their backs to look short? and what about short legged people and long backs? Waistlines and pockets and lapels and shoulder widths and collars are adjustable too, to play the optical illusions that the person is normal. When tailors get heavy handed in rules they lose options and with so few tailors how many options have been lost? Options are tools to use so your customers walk out looking better than what other tailors do. While we are hardly, if at all, competing with tailors we do want to attract those new to tailoring from mass produced. As a boy I saw plenty of tailored garments that were no better looking than store bought and sometimes I thought they would have looked better if they had bought from a store instead of from some of those tailors. Of course some of the American fashions were awful back then (true sacks). Granddad had some bells and whistles to choose from and looked splendid. Some other tailors had some other bells and whistles and made splendid garments of other goals. But, those with out some bells and whistles or assemble them wrong- ugh. Some fashions are ugh, anyway.
Posted 09 January 2014 - 12:16 AM
Having read all the responses I feel we are talking about apples and oranges when it comes to fashionable lengths. On the custom side I agree with all the statements above that the customer's body dictates the length as well as other vital measures. The term really applies to the ready made or that customer who can easily buy off the rack but loves the custom experience and has the money and the personal motivation to buy something special.
The formulas all make sense: to throw another log on the fire try the head unit theory-divide the body by 8 equal units- subtract 1 head and divide by 2= jacket length. One can also take a head unit 8 3/4"(1/8th of 70"/177.8CM) x 3.5 head units and get to the same place( in the USA the standard men's height is calculated at 70"/177.8CM these days). These are all the ready made stats but I use it as a barometer when cutting custom.
Once I have evaluated the individual or the style to be produced I make a judgment call as to the length based on shoulder width, chest and waist expression. one of the real keys was mentioned above and that is the proportion between the front and the center back lengths. On a lounge jacket I have gone as long as 1"/2.54CM, on the more fashionable lengths I cut back to 1/2"/1.2CM to create the illusion on more 'shortness'. On 'dip front' jackets with a low front button placement and skirt effect I will be as long as 1 1/2"/ 3.8CM.
It is science and art, have fun!
Posted 16 January 2014 - 11:53 AM
These days I think it's fine to keep tailoring looking fashionable and relevant to a contemporary audience. If a younger client wants a hip looking short jacket, I don't think that's necessarily such a bad thing. If it quickly goes out of fashion, it means the client will need to order another one to keep in step with fashion
Posted 24 May 2014 - 11:35 PM
I calculate half the height minus 10 up to minus 15, depending on the desired look and the body to dress, in the end there is the fitting anyway to decide if it should/could be shorter or longer....
Posted 25 May 2014 - 10:29 AM
Some tailors say to pin up the bottom to the height that the custom likes when he/she looks in the mirror.
Why should it matter to the tailor, he or she is not wearing it and dealing with the social group the customer is in.
Edited by greger, 25 May 2014 - 10:30 AM.
Posted 26 May 2014 - 06:07 AM
I even go now 1/2 Kph - 9.5cm in the back and the front longer like in the old days when fashion was a fashion.
We need to get out of the German/American potatoe sack time of the 50ties and back to the English where everything started.
Posted 31 May 2014 - 10:18 AM
Tailors have to do fads, as it is part of the job description, so says that three volume book by tailor and cutter back in the 40s/50s. It also says the 30/40 years prior many changes had happened of mostly small changes here and there, even canvas construction just to keep up with the times those people were going through. Has anything changed about continuing changing? So it is a good idea to have a modern back length calculation to get into the ball park and let the customer fine tune it from there.
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