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Transferring waistcoat adjustments to a shirt draft


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#1 Nigel

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 08:11 PM

I have nearly finished making and fitting a waistcoat.  This exercise, together with an earlier attempt to make a coat, has resulted in a list of adjustments I believe I need to make to the standard draft.  I want to try to apply these to a shirt draft, but it is not entirely clear to me how to do this.

 

The main adjustments I found were needed for the waistcoat were:

 

-  a longer back, to allow for a slightly stooped posture

-  closer neck points on the fronts to allow for a relatively flat chest and prevent bulging in the lapel area

-  more width across the shoulder blades at the back, achieved through a combination of letting out the centre back seam and reducing the slope of the shoulders

-  for a significantly lower and set back right shoulder, a pivoting of the top of the right back piece from a point at the centre of the back in line with the bottom of the arm, a corresponding shortening of the side seam on the right front and a slight taking in of the right shoulder seam.

 

The longer back is straightforward enough, as is the shoulder angle and back width.  Neck points presumably can't be changed on a shirt as the button and button hole edges are straight right up to the neck.  The main issue then is the low right shoulder adjustment.  Coats, vests and shirts all have two piece backs, but the first two are split vertically whereas shirts are split horizontally.  The options would seem to be to make the adjustments in the yoke (to leave a relatively horizontal seam) or the back piece (giving a sloping seam but a symmetrical yoke), or a bit of both.  My instinct is to leave the yoke alone and make an adjustment to the back piece only.  Is this how it should be done?  



#2 peterle

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 04:44 AM

When making a low shoulder adjustment, You shift the armhole downwards, usually by drawing the whole armhole a few cm deeper and connecting the neckpoints to the new shoulderpoints.

It´s the same in shirts. Treat the back and the yoke as one seamless piece. Be aware that in most shirt patterns the front yoke seam is not the true shoulder line but shifted forward for a few centimeters.(Look  fig. 6 here:

http://movsd.com/Bes...88.msg4017#new

the yoke is overcut 3cm from the true shoulder line A7-S2).

Use the true shoulder line for your low shoulder alteration.

 

So the alteration is mostly in the yoke because it´s there also on your body. Afterwards You can decide wether you want to alter one side of the back yoke seam. I would´t change it´s  horizontal run, because it would pronounce the hanging shoulder and you also would get in trouble when working with stripes and plaids.



#3 Nigel

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Posted 07 April 2018 - 12:46 AM

Thank you - most helpful.

 

I was following King Wilson's advice in making my right shoulder adjustment.  He identifies three types of low shoulder:  one where the shoulder comes forward as well and down, one where the shoulder goes back as well as down and one where it goes down in the middle.  For the shoulder going back he recommends making no adjustment to the front and using the pivoting method on the back.  I followed this with the waistcoat and it worked pretty well.



#4 peterle

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Posted 07 April 2018 - 05:58 PM

It should be possible with a shirt pattern as well, treating back and yoke as one and use the true shoulder line.



#5 Nigel

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 06:16 PM

peterle

 

I have now drafted a pattern based on the link you posted above, incorporating the adjustments I derived from my other projects, including earlier attempts at shirt making, (mainly longer back, low right shoulder, shorter shoulder seams) and it is starting to look very good indeed.  My previous shirt draft had been derived empirically by copying an existing shirt then tweaking it.  I achieved quite some good results by that method but this latest draft is a big step forward.  

 

I particularly like the way the yoke is derived in the pattern, which results in a nice clean curve around the top of the arm.  The pattern does not have any pleats on the seam where the back joins the yoke.  My low right shoulder adjustment, made by rotating the top part of the right back, created some extra length along the top of the back piece which in a coat or vest would be taken up in the vertical back seam.  Instead, I lost this extra inch or so in a couple of small pleats.  This seems to have worked quite well.

 

Do you know of any good drafts for ladies blouses as I would like to make one for my wife when I have finished mine?

 

Thanks again

 

Nigel



#6 peterle

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 06:41 PM

This shirt pattern is made with the swiss "Unicut" system, wich is for men and women.

You can find them here: http://www.intermode.org/

 

It´s in the pink edition 73-74. In German Italian and French only.

 

I´m sure sombody else can give You some english resources.



#7 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 10:03 AM

Here is a link to the English translation.

 

http://movsd.com/Bes...8.msg343#msg343

 

I have just updated the version on this forum.

 

http://www.cutterand...87&st=0&p=49244

 

G


Edited by Schneiderfrei, 12 April 2018 - 10:40 AM.

Shell made out of gold
Found on a beach picked up and you held so close


#8 posaune

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 10:05 PM

Just  a reminder:  A lady with some bust will have no joy with the draft. So ask first what she wants.

lg

posaune


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#9 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 12:33 AM

Despite the UNICUT claim, these drafts have no split descriptions for men and women like the jacket example that I posted in Les Incroyables.

 

It would take a stretch to adapt for a women's blouse.

 

Yes it was a pun.

 

G


Edited by Schneiderfrei, 13 April 2018 - 12:33 AM.

Shell made out of gold
Found on a beach picked up and you held so close


#10 posaune

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 01:09 AM

Don't fret Schneiderfrei - you did not catch the head line:

Tight fitting garments for Gentlemen Waist coat and Shirt.

In the same journal is a blouse (page 146) in a style nowadays is worn (beside the collar)

It is shown how you can get rid of the darts but the same as here with a cup C you should not do this.

And to have a look how the "gender" draft differs look at the pyjama draft.

lg

posaune


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#11 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 01:35 AM

Goodness, thank you for that posaune.  I may be able to translate but I still cannot scan.


Shell made out of gold
Found on a beach picked up and you held so close


#12 Nigel

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 07:05 AM

Just finished the machine sewing of my shirt from the new draft (I do the buttonholes by hand).  I had forgotten just how demanding shirtmaking is of one's sewing machine technique but I got there thanks to David Coffin's wonderful book.  My technique is slowly improving but I still have a long way to go.

 

The fit of the shirt is better than my previous drafts in a number of respects.  The low right shoulder and longer back adjustment, derived from coat fitting techniques, have significantly improved the overall hang of the shirt and resolved a number of issues I had with the neckline and collar.  It still needs some adjustment, particularly in the length of the shoulder seams (too long) and the back need some work to eliminate vertical creases.  A couple more iterations and I think I will have a very nicely tailored garment.

 

The trouble is that I am now getting used to shirts that fit.  I wore one of my most expensive and best fitting off the peg ones recently (from New and Lingwood in Jermyn Street, 16 1/2" slim fit).  It was very nicely made made of course but what is the point of all that craftsmanship if it doesn't fit properly?



#13 greger

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Posted 21 April 2018 - 06:58 AM

You have more options with shirts now. 

Choices in how they are made. 

How they fit. 

Shirts that are uncomfortable- someone else can wear. 






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