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Trouser Drafting System by Edmund B. Roberts and Gary Onishenko.


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#1 Zephyrus

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 06:26 PM

Hi to everybody,
my name is Dominic from Assisi, Italy and am new in this incredible useful forum.
I just was wondering if anyone had the old book entitled "Fundamentals of Men's Fashion Design: A Guide to Casual Clothes by Edmund B. Roberts and Gary Onishenko" published in 1985 by Fairchild Publications and could perhaps put on this forum some scans of the book's pages regarding "the practice of drafting trousers patterns".
I will be extremely grateful if my request is favourably considered.
Anyway, thanks for your attention, whatever.
Dominic

#2 Sator

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 07:08 PM

I had other plans but if necessary I can sacrifice what will be most of an evening to scan and post all of the 18-19 pages. The bigger question is this: why??? I took one look at their trouser system and it didn't really pass my eyeball test (looks too run of the mill ready-to-wear), and this was why I put it aside.

I am happy to do it - probably some time next week, but I don't want to spend all that time only to find that it's not what you expected.

In the meanwhile I suggest looking at the Rundschau and T&C systems. These are much more bespoke drafting systems.

#3 Zephyrus

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 08:57 PM

I had other plans but if necessary I can sacrifice what will be most of an evening to scanning and post all of the 18-19 pages. The bigger question is this: why??? I took one look at their trouser system and it didn't really pass my eyeball test (looks too run of the mill ready-to-wear), and this was why I put it aside.

I am happy to do it - probably some time next week, but I don't want to spend all that time only to find that it's not what you expected.

In the meanwhile I suggest looking at the Rundschau and T&C systems. These are much more bespoke drafting systems.



Thanks for staying in touch Sator, I am always delighted to hear from you.
I believe you are absolutely right: the Rundschau and T&C systems are the "non plus ultra" of bespoke drafting systems, there is no doubt about that, but it would be also interesting for me to see how these two U.S. tailors worked in the 1970s era. I appreciate greatly your willingness to provide me with the above mentioned scans.
Looking forward to hearing from you soon.

#4 Sator

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 01:01 PM

There are actually plenty of other good trouser cutting systems around. Unlike with shirt cutting, the competition in the trouser department is very stiff. The Roberts & Onishenko system doesn't even look like it has provision for ironwork. Also questionable is the excessive emphasis on the waist measure over the seat measure.

Trouser Cutting System from Roberts and Onishenko Fundamentals of Men's Fashion Design - A Guide to Casual Clothes 2dn Edition. Fairchild Publications, NY 1985.

Once again, if this books goes back into print I am happy to withdraw this thread. However, this book has not been in print for over twenty years now.

Their trouser drafting system begins with the drafting of the trouser sloper pattern.

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Trouser Measurement Chart

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They also give a system of drafting trousers by direct measurements:

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To be continued...

#5 Sator

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 11:04 AM

Straight Cut Trousers

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Tapered Cut Trousers

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Pleated Trousers

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#6 Zephyrus

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 09:28 PM

Many thanks for the pics and the info Sator, you really do keep your word!
I was just about to buy this book (used) from Amazon.co.uk until I saw these pics. This trousers cutting system is not really what I expected from Messrs Roberts and Onishenko. Just as you warned me :) The system really looks primitive for me. I don't absolutely despise it but I strongly dislike it. Maybe it is a good system for other people.

Maybe I have 'goofed up' again!

I am looking for a nice 'clean' trousers cutting system that at the same time takes into account the human body in terms of posture and bone structure. I am certain that late 1950's Müller & Sohn system is an excellent starting point, but I would loved to see a more recent version of Müller & Sohn system. Could you help me, Sator? Do you think I should open another thread for that?
Thanks again.

#7 Sator

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 11:47 PM

If you want the recent Rundschau system I suggest subscribing to the journal. I prefer that people don't post their current stuff here.

#8 Zephyrus

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 03:36 AM

If you want the recent Rundschau system I suggest subscribing to the journal. I prefer that people don't post their current stuff here.




Ok, you are right: you need to think about copyright issues before you incorporate any of these recent materials into this forum, right?.
I have no problem subscribing to the Rundschau journal but unfortunately don't speak a word of German. I will try to manage with what there is:
http://www.cutterand...p?showtopic=773
I hope, one day, you will translate other pages regarding 1950's Rundschau system for cutting trousers, for example, sections about cutting for disproportion and various different styles of trousers.
Thanks again.
Dominic

#9 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 07:35 AM

The Rundschau magazine is also issued in English language.
www.berlinbespokesuits.com

#10 Sator

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 12:12 PM

I hope, one day, you will translate other pages regarding 1950's Rundschau system for cutting trousers, for example, sections about cutting for disproportion and various different styles of trousers.


It takes me many hours of work to translate and post this information, and can take me several evenings to do the work. If I were doing the translation professionally, I would have no hesitation in charging you about $500 or more to translate even a couple of pages of Rundschau technical instructions. The number of people able to do a professional job of this work is so few that I think that this sort of pricing would be reasonable. Of course, if you are willing to commission me to translate something we can work something out :)

#11 Zephyrus

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 06:45 PM

The Rundschau magazine is also issued in English language.


Hi, clinching argument. Could you please provide me with their contact info and link to their website? Thank you.




#12 Zephyrus

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 06:49 PM

It takes me many hours of work to translate and post this information, and can take me several evenings to do the work. If I were doing the translation professionally, I would have no hesitation in charging you about $500 or more to translate even a couple of pages of Rundschau technical instructions. The number of people able to do a professional job of this work is so few that I think that this sort of pricing would be reasonable. Of course, if you are willing to commission me to translate something we can work something out :)



The price is quite resonable mostly because the translation requires a certain skill and technical knowledge which are not within everybody's reach, the content is technical so is it essential that the translator has a huge amount of technical knowledge too. I have no doubt about that, but  frankly, the fee is far beyond my means. Anyway, thanks for your willingness to help me :) 

#13 Sator

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 06:50 PM

There is a thread about it and it's in one of the pinned topics too.

#14 Zephyrus

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 07:20 PM

There is a thread about it and it's in one of the pinned topics too.



Thanks Sator, you are always quick to help. 
Eureka I have found it!
http://www.muellerso...chau-verlag,,1/




#15 Sator

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 07:28 PM

I've found the thread for you, in case you missed it:

http://www.cutterand...p?showtopic=541

The English translation of certain things as you go through the check out is a bit confusing so you may need to read the instructions I put together.

#16 Zephyrus

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 10:53 PM

I've found the thread for you, in case you missed it:

http://www.cutterand...p?showtopic=541

The English translation of certain things as you go through the check out is a bit confusing so you may need to read the instructions I put together.



I found the German website just through the thread you mentioned http://www.cutterand...p?showtopic=541
Very good starting point! Thanks Sator.

#17 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 06:50 AM

Rundschau in Deutsch/English/Holländisch. If you want to understand the important things in this forum you learn the Rundschausystem with those English magazines, then you understand also the German articles. Translation of the articles is so much time consuming, you have to extract the important content to make understandable for the people with less knowledge. That means you need to understand fully the content. There are only a few in this forum who could do this.
www.berlinbespokesuits.com

#18 Zephyrus

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 08:12 PM

Rundschau in Deutsch/English/Holländisch. If you want to understand the important things in this forum you learn the Rundschausystem with those English magazines, then you understand also the German articles. Translation of the articles is so much time consuming, you have to extract the important content to make understandable for the people with less knowledge. That means you need to understand fully the content. There are only a few in this forum who could do this.



I'm almost novice in the Art of Tailoring as I mentioned in the announcement post (I say 'almost' because my mother, Anna, was a professional dressmaker, she worked and drafted until the day before she died at the age of 86. Her first creations were some lounging robes/robes de chambre made using U.S. Air Force parachute fabric during the WW2) but one look was enough for me to realize that Rundschau system is by far the best one because it really takes into account the human body.
Maybe there are other systems that work better after all, but for the moment this is the only one that really pleases my eye and will try to learn more about it.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen :)

Edited by Zephyrus, 25 June 2010 - 08:26 PM.





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