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Shirts: Advantage of having sleeve seam forward of side seam?


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#1 mrmanners

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 05:50 PM

The current issue of Men's Ex has a side-by-side comparison of a high-end italian shirt vs. a middle-of-the road shirt.

In addition to things like nicer buttons and handmade buttonholes, one of the "features" highlighted in the high-end shirt is the fact that the seam on the underside of the sleeve begins an inch or so forward of the seam on the side of the shirt while the sleeve seam of the middle-of-the-road shirt starts exactly where the side seam ends, forming a continuous line.

Is this is a legimately better way to make a shirt? Does it provide more mobility? Or is it -like the much ballyhooed gusset on the bottom of the side seam touted by Italian shirtmakers - something that offers no real advantage to the shirt wearer and is just based on myth?

#2 Martin Stall

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 10:13 PM

Sounds like they use a pattern similar to a jacket sleeve. Could work well, if the rest of the cut is good, but it's not very common.

I do it for a client who wears shirt-jackets. It helps me get a cleaner sleeve behind the arm.
Sure, I believe your work rocks, but... have you considered, how are you going to sell that stuff?

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#3 Nishijin

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 10:27 PM

No, no, it's done with usual shirt sleeve pattern.

I've been told by a bespoke shirt cutter that it is suited for some customers, depending on the morphology, and that not everybody needs it. I presume it has something to do with turning the sleeve head to follow the arm, but I don't know for sure. I'll ask.
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#4 Martin Stall

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 10:38 PM

Well, in my case it works a charm because the pattern is a jacket pattern. The jacket sleeve works really well here. It does indeed give mobility but it looks cleaner than a normal shirt sleeve.
Sure, I believe your work rocks, but... have you considered, how are you going to sell that stuff?

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#5 Sator

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 11:13 PM

Do you mean that you cut a two-piece sleeve (with top and under sleeves)?

I can't think of any reason why you would want to displace the seam an inch forward for a one piece sleeve. I'll have to think about that one. :Confused: It seems to me that all it does is to make the seam more visible.

#6 Martin Stall

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 11:32 PM

Yes. It means I can't stretch the tops sleeve forward seam of course but there are tricks for that.

If it's not a two part sleeve, I agree that seam displacement serves little to no purpose, other than esthetically or marketing-wise.
Sure, I believe your work rocks, but... have you considered, how are you going to sell that stuff?

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#7 Nishijin

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 12:37 AM

What I'm talking about is for a 1-piece sleeve, and I understood there is a functionnaly reason for it. I've asked my friend, now I'm just waiting for his answer.
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#8 Hedges

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 01:16 AM

I've been meaning to ask about this..
I have a Borrelli shirt made in this manner and it wears quite comfortably.

The sleeve has been set by machine after the side seam and yoke have been sewn. The second part of the flat fell is sewn by hand.

#9 Nishijin

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 03:07 AM

OK, so here is the answer from my friend : it is done to follow the arm, just as a tailor turns the sleeve head to adjust the plumb line of his sleeve.

It's not done for every customer, just those who need it.


To be fair, the sleeve head should be corrected to reflect the rotation, but shirt cutters usually just turn the sleeve.


It also depends on where the side seam is placed, as it can be moved back or front to adapt to customers who have more development in the back or in the front.


RTW shirtmakers have made a fashion of it, and now everybody wants it even if they don't need it.

The fact that the Borelli shirt is more confortable could be because you need to correction, or because the shirt is better cut or better made in general.
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#10 Sator

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 09:25 AM

In other words, the sleeve seam (one piece sleeve) will be displaced forward when you adjust the sleeve pitch by rotating the sleeve head around.

This shouldn't really improve the comfort of the shirt, which is already a rather drapey garment. It might at best make the sleeve head a bit cleaner.

#11 Terri

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 09:41 AM

If you look at a shirt pattern that is drafted with the side seam halfway across the body along with a sleeve draft that is divided equally on either side of the vertical construction line, you may find that the underarm seam really should be displaced forward of the underarm seam of the body.
You would need to walk your sleeve pattern against the armhole matching at either the front or back pitch (sorry can't remember the complete process off the top of my head) allowing whatever ease at the top and working your way around the armhole. the front armhole is usually a greater distance from the shoulder point than the back armhole, and that usually places the underarm seam forward of the side seam.

One way to deal with it then is to either move the side seam forward the amount needed, or move the sleeve seam , adding more to the front whatever amount taken off the back. This then allows you to continue to set the shirt sleeve in flat.

It is explained very well for ladies wear in the Natalie Bray book " Dress Pattern Designing".

#12 napoli

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 04:34 AM

This thread is quite interesting as I am right now sewing a sleeve.

Most of my shirts are mtm on Naples, but I never realized that the under armhole sewn is advanced on some of them until this thread!

I did some pictures, a nice one ( advanced thread ) and a run of the mill rtw one whose threads do continue.

But honestly the fit on me is almost the same, as I am a very slim person so I didn´t realized until today :thumbsup: I order slim sleeves and high and small armhole .

This forum delivers! :im Not Worthy:

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Edited by napoli, 05 March 2012 - 04:34 AM.





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