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Men trouser cutting, front pattern crotch


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#1 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 04:08 AM

In older time the left front pattern of a trouser got truncated in the crotch with 0.75cm to get some space for the 'Nudel'.

I wonder what happened with that, does anybody do that nowadays? Does it not give an unquietness in the front part of the trouser?
If you truncate the crotch you need to iron work the trouser before attaching the back trouser in order not to change the middle of the crease.
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#2 jruley

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 06:12 AM

English language cutting books refer to this as "dress". Most say the "dress" should be taken off the right front, unless the gentleman prefers to "dress" (i.e. place the "Nudel") on the right. Poulin's book notes that this is unnecessary for any but tight-fitting trousers.

#3 greger

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 07:07 AM

If you are wearing boxers, then dress is best. Tight to loose trousers put in what you think is best.

#4 Sator

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 05:03 PM

I have heard older tailors say that it does improve the fit. Even 1960s Rundschau trousers systems have a dress and non-dress side. I guess that 1960s trousers tended to be somewhat slimmer in their cut. However, trousers do have to be rather fitted for it to make a difference, I suspect. Otherwise, it will end up like a cheap hotel - no ballroom. :Whistle:

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#5 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 08:08 PM

It's not so much how tight trousers are, but how high in the crutch they are worn. Basically, when you add "Dress" you are making a "basket" for the "eggs". It is important, as you can imagine, to make sure of the dress side when measuring the crutch, once I got it wrong, and all sorts of wars were fought in the poor man's crutch, no matter how many time he shifted the parcel, they still wanted to pop out of the basket. :(

Jason

P.S.
1 inches to 1.5 inches is the general rule for the amount of dress taken on most trousers. Generally it is done artistically, i.e. by eye, or one half of the cocyxial quantity from the mesial line.

Edited by J. Maclochlainn, 18 January 2010 - 08:18 PM.

Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#6 Schneidergott

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 08:11 PM

I have to find the image from the article in an old Rundschau from the mid 50's. They actually blame the new type of underpants

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for the change to cutting both pant fronts equal. But then again the 50's trousers had a looser cut with lots of "ballroom"! :Big Grin:

Actually this reminds me of a little joke:

A man feels unbearable pain in his testicles which extends into his left arm.
He visits a doctor (who obviously doesn't know anything about cutting trousers :Big Grin: ) who tells him the only cure for that problem would be a total removal of his private parts.
The man is naturally shocked but the pain is so strong that he finally gives in.
A few weeks after the operation he decides to treat himself with a bespoke suit.
The tailor asks him: "Do you carry your piece on the left or on the right, Sir?"
"Does that matter?" asks the man. "Of course", replies the tailor. "If I put the extra space on the wrong side you'll feel some terrible pain starting in your testicles extending into your arm!"

:unknw: :pardon:

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
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#7 Schneidergott

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 10:21 PM

Here is a workaround for more b-room, and a nice suggestion for this years gift season... :give_rose: Just avoid public places! :Shame On You:



Do men still dress that way in the USA?

Edited by Schneidergott, 18 January 2010 - 10:21 PM.

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"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

 


#8 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 11:01 PM

None the less, am I the only one here who still takes out dress then?
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#9 Schneidergott

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 01:25 AM

None the less, am I the only one here who still takes out dress then?



Doesn't that depend on the customers needs? :Big Grin:

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

 


#10 jruley

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 02:07 AM

None the less, am I the only one here who still takes out dress then?


No, there are at least two of us.

Edited by jruley, 19 January 2010 - 02:51 AM.


#11 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 02:50 AM

Doesn't that depend on the customers needs? :Big Grin:


Uh... no, my customers bend to my will! muahaha :diablo:

On a serious note, if the customer insists on whitey tightys then dress doesn't have to be addressed, but as I work with clients that want the very best and latest cuts :spiteful: , they also spare the extra expense for proper underclothes that does not lower sperm count :)

So what I gather is post 50's the dress is pretty much abolished, even in west-end firms?
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#12 Schneidergott

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 03:28 AM

Uh... no, my customers bend to my will! muahaha :diablo:

On a serious note, if the customer insists on whitey tightys then dress doesn't have to be addressed, but as I work with clients that want the very best and latest cuts :spiteful: , they also spare the extra expense for proper underclothes that does not lower sperm count :)

So what I gather is post 50's the dress is pretty much abolished, even in west-end firms?


I'm curious: What sort of underwear did (or could) Victorian men wear?
Plus in the end it doesn't matter how you ruin your sperm count, may it be with tight underwear or lots of smoking, drinking or very tight trousers :spiteful: (with the very wide cut trousers in the 30's to 50's, was the basic birth rate much higher than in the 70's, when the ballroom was almost eliminated? And isn't it a contradiction to the tight fitting trousers in that period to call them the"Swinging 60's?)

I think with the return of rather tight fitting trousers the "dress" is back, at least I think it is in recent Rundschau trouser patterns. The question is if it can be applied to all the cheap materials we see in the shops.

I think the "dress" part is missing in the left pair:

Posted Image

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

 


#13 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 12:40 PM

Woohaa... der Eierladen hat geoeffnet...

So, in recent Rundschauen they put the dress back? That's interesting.
The dress belongs automatically to the left site in Germany. The Tailor ask you dressing right? The he does it on the right side.
I have seen constructions with little 0.75cm adding and MM puts even 1.5cm in the 1954 book.
Even with trousers over the butt with 1/2 hip girth + 2.5cm (without seams) they dress a little up with 0.75cm.

I am just in the redeveloping process of a trouser pattern with out seams and was philosophing about that crotch part.
Technically it allows you to straight the front center to the stripe of a fabric and gives you more wrap on the left side.
So there is also a small cutting reason behind this idea.

I think the dress is only for men beyond 60y. old only, for younger men it might become ridiculous.

What is when someone gets a customer that need even iron work over the ballroom...

I just saw even the Torero-Hose of SG, very narrow over the butt, is left dressed with 1.0cm.

My link

Edited by Der Zuschneider, 19 January 2010 - 01:21 PM.

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#14 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 07:11 PM

.75 cm dress, why even bother? I do hope this is not reflecting the amount of room a German needs in his trouser :(

Seriously, where does this number come from? .75 to 1.50 cm is such a triffle that I think the amount needed could be stretched out the first time a customer squats. I will have to say I will go with the English method of cutting the dress 1/2 the cocyxial quantity.
\
J
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#15 Schneidergott

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 10:59 PM

.75 cm dress, why even bother? I do hope this is not reflecting the amount of room a German needs in his trouser :(


Are you mildly implying that Scots had to wear kilts for a certain reason? :Thinking:

Actually, I think it depends on the cloth and it's shrinking capacity. And in case you are hung like a baboon you better ask for wider trousers, or go Spandex... :Big Grin:

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

 


#16 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 12:20 AM

German Tailors were among the ones with the finest tailor quality worldwide, you can see that already on the cutting books they produced and set standards.
When German cutting books say 0.75 to 1.5cm then this is meant to be. In old odd cutting books I have also seen 2.5cm, that's ridiculous, then you need iron work.

Maybe the british 'Nudel' was bigger...

You need to ask the customer now for their heritage as well. :)
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#17 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 02:35 AM

I believe SG is correct, when dealing with paper fabrics is would be a kill to try and work an inch into the crutch, and we all know the heavier fabrics need more ease, so with this in mind it might work out to be about the same once all is said and done.

Why does there seem to be an avoidance amongst modern tailors when it comes to iron work?

J
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#18 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 04:53 AM

I believe SG is correct, when dealing with paper fabrics is would be a kill to try and work an inch into the crutch, and we all know the heavier fabrics need more ease, so with this in mind it might work out to be about the same once all is said and done.

Why does there seem to be an avoidance amongst modern tailors when it comes to iron work?

J


Because they don't understand the sense of iron work, they might even had not been shown how to do it.
The simplest ironwork is to iron the crease in the front then shorten over the shinebone
and in the back trouser the crease wiht short ironing the hollow of the knee. That's all for normal wide trousers.
Modern tailors might do it without knowing its iron work, they just flatten each leg like a flatfish, that's enough.
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