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#1 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 10:04 AM

I was playing around with this pretty cheap tool:Denali 10-Inch Digital Protractor

I found out I have on the left side 19.5 degree and on the right side 22 degree which makes a difference by calculating with tangens of 0.9cm. The same result I also found out by guessing, checking, measuring, trying and was rather correct with 1.0cm. The tool is maybe not to handy cause you have to level it horizontal with your eye, when you measure yourself but for the price it is a good toy to figure out the slope and how much your site is hanging. There are much nicer tools but then they are really expensive. The tool is worth trying.
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#2 Nishijin

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 07:14 PM

I started trying to use on too, but a different model which doesn't have to be leveled, it memorized the horizontal and you just have to put it on a slope and read the numbers.

I found it's not that easy to use, since the customer make many little movements, that change the shoulder slope a few degrees. So I just use a round value, based on a kind of "mean value". I still don't know how it will help me draft the correct shoulder slope value, but it sure is very, very handy to check the difference between left and right side.

I still clearly say to my customers it's just a gadget I'm trying, because when you use precise, scientific looking tools, customers expect precise results, or you just look like a fool. Like it's difficult to explain why with measures taken with lasers, the resulting suit can be so wrong...
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#3 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:30 AM

Unfortunately mine does not level horizontal automatically so it is a little bit awkward to measure myself, LOL. But the Tool was cheap, only 7$ instead of 37$ so I bought to see what it is. A protractor who levels automatically a better choice but is expensive. You can measure on 1/2 degree accuracy which is well enough. So when I measured on the left 21.9Degree I rounded to 22Deg. I would not really advise a none digital protractor like the ancestors had the failure tolerance might be too big.

This tool is actually no gadget as it is very important to know how much the hanging site hangs. Without this tool you actually have to guess the difference. Once you have calculated then difference by Tan (alpha) = a/b, trigonometry and you have sharpen your mind then you can guess the difference right after some time. I have guessed my hanging side but was never really able to prove it as I have nobody here who knows how to handle a tape or anything like that in a logical way, I am living here in a complete tailoring darkness and the only light is myself, LOL.

I have also calculated the slope into my coat draft, as I wanted to know how much both of my shoulders are hanging despite of the hanging side. This is very important to know what actually is the position of the normal shoulder slope. We know when the back depth is higher than the proportion of 1/8Bu. + 1/16kph. then you actually have a hanging shoulders and vice versa for straighter shoulders.

In order to compare the measured slope with your draft it is very complicated as you need to be able to know the ease under the back depth and the ease of the shoulder pads and all together it has to be combined with the over shoulder calculation. The over shoulder calculation is not part of the Rundschau system cause they never got it how it works and they never understand it why it works. The East German cutting association was fed up with this Rundschau guessing of shoulder heights and what pads will fit in and how much ease is under the back depth and the correct sleeve cap height. So they developed a very complicated solution with which they tortured then the apprentices in school. I had published a draft of the East German cutting association here in the forum somewhere. They started to develop the new Einheitssystem in 1963 I think, Hans Mayer was actually one of the heads. Today there is almost nobody who understand this Einheitssystem anymore, the tailors are gone.

The East German Tailors never had any device like a protractor or anything else. We had even to ask our elderlies to go to West-Berlin and to bring a good tape for 2.5 DM what was a whooping 15 East Mark. LOL

But anyway I was able to proof now that my left shoulder is in line with the proportion of the back depth and my right shoulder hangs 1cm. But I found something interesting about the back depth. There was a time from 1965 - 1968 when the back depth was calculated with 1/8Bu. + 1/16kph + 0.5cm and everybody in the East followed Rundschau doing the same. Out of the sudden they changed it back in 1969 without 0.5cm extra ease. Munch even uses - 0.5cm (when calculated backwards) but then he has to iron the seams down into the sleeves which I find awkward and he sets the 'Seitenspitze' on 7.5cm instead of 6cm. So he is able to compensate his -0.5cm. But I think the +0.5cm is better, since the modern suits today probably have + 4cm and more which is completely a cutting fault. Just look at the coats of SG, what he is forced to alterate, which looks very strange to do and is not very funny.
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#4 Nishijin

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 05:23 AM

This tool is actually no gadget as it is very important to know how much the hanging site hangs.


Well, when I will have a proven and reliable use for it, it will no longer be a gadget. Today, I'm still learning to use it, and since I don't fit customers every day, me being a very small shop, it will take me quite some time before I stop telling customers it's a gadget. If I say it's a good tool, measure shoulders slope to 1 degree precision, and then have to alter the shoulder by 1cm, I am a fool. So, gadget it is, until better.


Without this tool you actually have to guess the difference.


Duh, no ! I don't like guessing. I measure the shoulder slope since I've been cutting coats. I measure the height between the shoulder end and the base of the neck, using a bubble level as a horizontal reference (or I just eyeball it, I'm not too bad at this). I'm usually right to 0,5cm, which is OK.
With the digital protactor, I hope to get the result quicker. And I like it, which is a good reason for me. It must be my only geek tool in the whole workshop.


That said, all you explain about using this value in the pattern is very, very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
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#5 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 01:30 PM

You could take even a level from a bricklayer and hold it behind the neck and you could actually measure the difference directly. Probably you did that.
The problem was I have to measure myself and there is nobody here in this darkness of tailoring at home who can help me.

But with my protractor I do the same on each site. I level one leg horizontal and then I read the degree.
Then I calculate with trigonometry Height = shoulder length times tan(alpha)
Then you compare both sites height and subtract from each other. Most sites hang right.

I bought here.

Edited by Der Zuschneider, 27 October 2012 - 01:42 PM.

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