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#1 Charles Bazalgette

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 01:59 AM

I saw in the professional part of this forum (where being unprofessional I cannot post)
some discussion on the word 'umsie' as applied to an apprentice.
I have done a lot of searches without much success.
I'm interested in how back the usage of the word may go.
One meaning given is "umm, what's his name".
Could it also be that the apprentice might say "umm" a lot when about to ask a (stupid) question?

Also I wonder what terms were used for tailoring apprentices at the end of the 18C,
equivalent to the naval 'squeaker', 'sprog' etc.

Edited by Charles Bazalgette, 01 October 2011 - 02:04 AM.


#2 Valentina

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 03:09 AM

I read somewhere, that "umsie" like as a "ship's boy".

#3 Charles Bazalgette

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 07:17 AM

I have never seen it used in a naval sense but I will ask in a naval forum.

#4 Naive Jr

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 04:49 AM

I saw in the professional part of this forum (where being unprofessional I cannot post)
some discussion on the word 'umsie' as applied to an apprentice.
I have done a lot of searches without much success.
I'm interested in how back the usage of the word may go.
One meaning given is "umm, what's his name".
Could it also be that the apprentice might say "umm" a lot when about to ask a (stupid) question?

Also I wonder what terms were used for tailoring apprentices at the end of the 18C,
equivalent to the naval 'squeaker', 'sprog' etc.


Your etymological and sociological research efforts to get out the true story on this riddle are laudable, but keep in mind what you say is only about the first of both syllables. Perhaps the -sie is a suffix and diminutive?
Scribimus indocti doctique poemata passim

#5 Naive Jr

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 04:50 AM

I have never seen it used in a naval sense but I will ask in a naval forum.


It could have its origin in a sphere outside the world of cloth and scissors and was adopted - apologies for the speculation.
Scribimus indocti doctique poemata passim

#6 Naive Jr

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 04:51 AM

I read somewhere, that "umsie" like as a "ship's boy".


I wonder where and why?
Scribimus indocti doctique poemata passim

#7 Charles Bazalgette

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:22 AM

Well, "Umsie" does seem to be a word in use in tailoring, so whatever its etymology it would still be of interest to me to know when it was first in use.
My interest is in whether I can use it in an eighteenth century context or not. I have had no feedback in the naval forum so it probably doesn't have a naval origin.

#8 Frog in Suit

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 08:55 AM

Well, "Umsie" does seem to be a word in use in tailoring, so whatever its etymology it would still be of interest to me to know when it was first in use.
My interest is in whether I can use it in an eighteenth century context or not. I have had no feedback in the naval forum so it probably doesn't have a naval origin.


From the "Savile Row Jargon" section in Richard Walker's The Savile Row Story, Prion, London, 1988:

"Umsies: Someone being talked about who (sic) the speaker does not want to identify directly, because he is present."
I would suggest that "umsie" is just derived from the embarrassed "um" or "err" sound one would make when making a less than flattering remark about someone present whose name one does not wish to say.

I wonder if this (
http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/) or this (http://www.gutenberg...5402.txt) might be of help.

Good luck.

Frog in Suit

#9 pter moore

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 01:38 AM

Having just joined the forum on another thread I noticed the  word "umsie" was being used and was prompted to see if anyone really knew of it's meaning. I can confirm

 

that Charles ​Bazalgette's post of 6th October 2011 is exactly right. My background is Savile Row tailoring and during my apprenticeship and subsequently my time

 

as a coatmaker the word "umsies" was frequently in use. I'm talking about 1952 onwards. I would think it went back much earlier than that and although it's use

 

slowly died like many of the other words and sayings in the tailoring fraternity one occasionally heard it until I retired in 2010 if in an older environment. The only comment I could add to

 

Charles's posting is that it was used not only talking about somebody who was present but talking about somebody who wasn't present but known to somebody

 

who was. Hope all this helps.  Regards,    Peter Moore.


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