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Germany on the Brink of Recession?


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#37 greger

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 05:10 AM

Country against country instead of corporations against corporation, as in the USA, will never work. Being glued to one economic theory doesn't work either. Sometimes parts of theories or, inventing new theories is best. Nimble is wise sometimes.

#38 posaune

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 07:06 AM

I' m no financial expert and this is my personal opinion and my vocabulary is sparse:

I really do not understamd much about (the global) business and I am by no means an expert about finance and all what it includes.

In my opinion: If the capital gets more interest as the - here I do not know the english vocublar - natoinal production grows, it will be that the rich will be more rich and the poor will get poorer. In Germany we have something called the "Mittelstand" and this is the motor for german wealth (in my opion). By no means - not the global players (who do not pay tax here in Germany but in countries which have low standard tax laws like the Antilles or you name it!). The tailor belongs to the Mittelstand. But all the tax-  and other financial laws are made for the global players and not for the Mittelstand  - so when there is a go down of the market the Mittelstand is the one of the first to be the victim. And now the globals are going down - and the Mittelstand is trying to held its position.  If it can't, we will have a crisis.

My opionion may lack much a professional view  - but I fear I'm not so wrong.

And I think in whole Europe is this the case too and the countries and their goverments should more work together against global finance and not fight against each other. The global player have to accept the law.

If the countries let themselves divided by the globals, the interest of their own peoples will be weakend but the growing of the shareholder values will be bigger.

lg

posaune


Edited by posaune, 26 October 2014 - 07:08 AM.


#39 jukes

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 04:23 PM

The EU has no interest in harmony between nations. The retiring president, Barosso is a communist, as are a lot of the others in the most senior positions. They spend billions on themselves, sing their anthem and salute their flag and leaders while member nations starve. Communism does not fit the majority of the member states, who were duped to signing as members. The EU is A very dangerous animal in its present state.


Edited by jukes, 26 October 2014 - 06:43 PM.

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#40 Schneidergott

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 05:32 PM

The trouble is that the EU administration has grown out of proportion and that the EU parliament consists mostly of party members that couldn't make it in their home countries but had good connections (Graf Lambsdorff was convicted for tax fraud) or simply challenged their party leaders and didn't succeed.

 

The biggest problem, IMHO, is the funding of election campaigns, which costs have become astronomical. Even in Germany the parties get "donations" (tax deductive, of course) from big corporations which, in return, have expectations.

So I don't think that any government can be independent in their decisions.

 

Right now the EU looks like a kindergarten with egoistic little boys and girls fighting over who gets the best toys.

I guess David Cameron has watched Angela Merkel's doing lately and found that not having a fixed point of view helps to stay in power.

During the Scottish referendum staying in the EU was one of the pros (only 4 weeks ago), now, after UKIP gaining votes, he wants to leave the EU. Or maybe he simply seeks to distract the public from all the promises he made in the past weeks.

 

The German Mittelstand (middle class) is suffering because the goverment handed out a lot of money to banks, so there is almost nothing left for the actual tasks of a government: provide good education, decent infrastructure, public security and a good health system.

German roads have become worse and the maintenance more and more expensive, because we are pretty much in the centre of Europe. So literally everyone is using our roads. The Scandinavian, BENELUX, Polish, Russian and South-East European trucks clog our Autobahns, and the increased traffic means there is hardly time to fix the roads without causing major problems.

The now mostly privatized Deutsche Bahn doesn't really care about the commuters anymore, apart from milking them to pay for their high-speed trains and salaries of the bosses. So people use their cars to get to work (vicious circles all over the place)!

 

Step by step the backbone of the Germany economy gets weekened, social systems get drained and poverty increases. Good thing there is the BILD ZEITUNG and the private TV stations to entertain the masses.


"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
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#41 jukes

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 06:49 PM

The EU,s accounts have not been passed by auditors for 20 years. This years reason is due to "unexplained spending". If you were a company director running a company who,s accounts have not been passed by the auditors, you would be either bankrupt or in prison. We have very dangerous individuals ruling us.

The people running the EU gravy train make their own rules, which does not include the working man / woman, or in fact anyone else but themselves.


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#42 ladhrann

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 08:20 PM

Well, I did make reference to the effects on the UK economy rather than the whole EU employment situation. Being able to do this is a technical term "A Posteriori" which means being able to look back at events and track down WHY they happened. First you dismantle manufacturing in the UK and put thousands of people out of work with no hope of changing it. Turn entire industrial areas into ghettos of poverty, crime and drugs. Then you screw down the price of labour to maximise profits, kick the guts out of the coal miners and all the while reducing the spending pool in the consumer market so that small to medium business goes bust as well.

 

Then as the revenue drops, taxes go up and up and up, transport costs skyrocket and law enforcement joins the ranks of the Gestapo to try and keep the lid on unhappy, hungry unemployed people. Diseffected ethnic minorities start to feel left out of it and start to follow loonie tune radicalism because the existing system offers them nothing while an increasing number of Anglo Saxon kids turn into skinheads, neo-nazis and the like to try and get heard. Even the recent referendum in Scotland made the point that young dis-effected people want the system to change. It is no secret that in areas like Glasgow that the yes vote was very strong among young people.

 

 

Again, what does this have to do with the EU? This all results from policies pursued by the various UK governments and particularly the monetarists under Thatcher.  You'll find as well that the Scottish young people who voted Yes are pro-Europe and pro-European Union as well.

 

 


Then you get involved in a war or three, the Falklands, Yugoslavia, Iraq and Afghanistan and waste a fortune on paying for armaments that kills off even more economic activity and you get the picture of why there are unhappy people in the UK. Now look at what the EU has to offer the UK, open floodgates of cheap labour to take the ever decreasing amount of work available, overrides of democratic elections that effect EU policy as happened in Ireland with attempts to introduce, crippling restrictions on economic activity from Brussels and the like.

 

The military entanglements of the UK are entirely its own, and not a result of EU membership.

 

Nah, the EU is an anathema on the UK (and most other countries in it) as it flounders from one debt crisis to another, made a fool of itself in the Ukraine and has no way to pay back its debts. Lets see a return to the Lira, Franc, Drachma and the like and let each economy compete with its exchange rate instead of propping up the Euro at the detriment to most in the EU.

 

I agree that there are flaws within the Euro's management, however that does not mean I discount the severe cost to the economies of member states to return to floating exchanges. 

 

The UK has tightened its belt and has the fastest growing economy in the EU. The EU,s verdict is that the UK must now pay an extra 1.7Billion on top of what we already pay, to bail out the failing EU countries, because we have been good boys and girls and shown the EU beurocrats how to run finances.
We have the NHS crumbling, overcrowded prisons and government cutting spending all round. We should be paying the national debt before paying more to the EU.
The sooner we get out of the communist empire that is called the EU, the better.

 

The reason the UK's economy appears to be growing quickly is because of a statistical revision in how figures for GDP are calculated, they now make an attempt to count levels of the black economy or illegal activity.

 

As every member state pays into EU based in part on the size of the GDP figures then it is no surprise that the UK's contribution should rise.  Ireland was the first country to change to what is known as ESA 2010 instead of ESA 95 in the First Quarter of 2014.  Due to the statistical change there is now renewed blether about a Celtic Phoenix, despite the underlying figures remaining the same.  As expected the Exchequer must also make an increased return to the EU budget.

 

The supposed improvement in the UK's finances is similarly unsound, and not likely to be as a result of 'tightening ones belt'.  As well as that if the term 'communist empire' has to be used about the EU we can safely invoke Godwin's Law and close the thread.


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#43 jukes

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 03:02 PM

So what is your opinion of the EU accounts never having passed the auditors, and where is the missing billions of "unexplained spending".
Maybe its lost in their expense accounts or the chairs that they sit in at
£1000,00 a chair while their so called people starve. Barosso is a Maoist along with many ex communists at the top of the EU making it a wannabe communist empire, which is failing miserably.
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#44 OJD

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 03:58 AM

The EU has no interest in harmony between nations. The retiring president, Barosso is a communist, as are a lot of the others in the most senior positions. They spend billions on themselves, sing their anthem and salute their flag and leaders while member nations starve. Communism does not fit the majority of the member states, who were duped to signing as members. The EU is A very dangerous animal in its present state.

 

Hahahaha, this is laughable! Communist?! Really?! Please give a source for this! EU is the distinct opposite of communism, the whole idea of the EU is a neoliberal construction where the market rule. That's why we see low wage workers coming to high wage countries looking for work, that is why all state contracts are subject to lowest bidder regulation, and that is why we see an ever continued down sizing of the state owned welfare systems in favour of private alternatives, and there are tonnes of more examples. You may think what you want about EU but get the facts right. The EU has nothing to do with communism.


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#45 jukes

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 05:52 PM

"The whole idea of the EU is a neo liberal construction where the market rule"
Are you serious ? Change "market" to "state"
Cheap labour = moving poverty around, which will wipe out the middle class, so the state can manipulate further.
Privatisation of government concerns are due to placement of people in senior positions beyond their capabilities, corruption and backhanders.
While all this goes on, the EU politat cream off large amounts for themselves, the reason the auditors have not signed off the accounts for twenty years, due to billions of unexplained spending over that period.
Sounds like communism to me.

#46 OJD

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 08:54 PM

"The whole idea of the EU is a neo liberal construction where the market rule"
Are you serious ? Change "market" to "state"
Cheap labour = moving poverty around, which will wipe out the middle class, so the state can manipulate further.
Privatisation of government concerns are due to placement of people in senior positions beyond their capabilities, corruption and backhanders.
While all this goes on, the EU politat cream off large amounts for themselves, the reason the auditors have not signed off the accounts for twenty years, due to billions of unexplained spending over that period.
Sounds like communism to me.

 

No, communism in it's purest form is a state free society. Read das kapital by marx if you're unsure about the definitions.

 

You have nothing to back your reasoning on. Yes, a free market and little private welfare is imperative for the EU, that is called neoliberalism. You are just talking about loose speculation with no real substance. All the core rules of the EU strives towards the same thing, the neoliberal wet dream of the unrestricted free market. Remember the bail outs to Greece and spain? What was the counterclaims on those countries? Cutting down the welfare, privatize everything that was state run etc.. If it would have been any form of socialism it would have been taken over by some EU super state, which of course doesn't exist (yet). Yes the EU might not be good, yes there is a lot of corruption, yes it costs a lot of money. But no, it is not communism.



#47 posaune

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 09:56 PM

While all this goes on, the EU politat cream off large amounts for themselves, the reason the auditors have not signed off the accounts for twenty years, due to billions of unexplained spending over that period.
Sounds like communism to me.

 

For me it sounds criminal.

lg

posaune



#48 jukes

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 05:25 AM

Its a fact that the EUs accounts have not been passed by the auditors for 20 years, not loose speculation with no substance. Its also a fact that the original idea of a common market was about free trade, not being dictated to and having countries rules and regulations made in Brussels, not to have to pay billions for the privilege of being dictated to, not to have prime ministers removed because the EU don't like their views (Greece) not to overturn a referendum vote because the EU did not agree with the outcome (Ireland) not to be told we must all have open borders, etc etc etc.

#49 OJD

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 06:31 AM

Its a fact that the EUs accounts have not been passed by the auditors for 20 years, not loose speculation with no substance. Its also a fact that the original idea of a common market was about free trade, not being dictated to and having countries rules and regulations made in Brussels, not to have to pay billions for the privilege of being dictated to, not to have prime ministers removed because the EU don't like their views (Greece) not to overturn a referendum vote because the EU did not agree with the outcome (Ireland) not to be told we must all have open borders, etc etc etc.

 

Wether EUs account has been passed by auditors have very little to do with communism. Good that you agree on the free trade, which is a very liberal idea, in a communist state there is the opposite, a state controlled market.

 

And I think you have made a wrong turn somewhere, EU is not a separate political entity, it is controlled by the commission and parlament in which there are representatives who are elected through representative democracy, hence, the people of the member countries decides the policies. Again, vastly different from socialist regimes which you compared it to.



#50 jukes

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 03:39 PM

Wether EUs account has been passed by auditors have very little to do with communism. Good that you agree on the free trade, which is a very liberal idea, in a communist state there is the opposite, a state controlled market.
 
And I think you have made a wrong turn somewhere, EU is not a separate political entity, it is controlled by the commission and parlament in which there are representatives who are elected through representative democracy, hence, the people of the member countries decides the policies. Again, vastly different from socialist regimes which you compared it to.


The commission and parliement are voted in by themselves, ie a closed shop, just as the communists used to. The latest president was voted from within by his comrades, as are the others, not by a democratic election, how can we vote for someone no one in Europe has heard of.
If the people of the member Countries decide policies, why has Cameron been told that we must have open borders, when the vast majority of the UK is against it, there are many other examples of the EU dictating countries policies.
Democracy will be seen at the next general elections when the people of member states can express their feelings,the gravy train will not have as many passengers on board.

#51 Schneidergott

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 05:46 PM

why has Cameron been told that we must have open borders, when the vast majority of the UK is against it

 

Probably because the same rules apply for all the other countries, since freedom of movement is one of the corner stones of the EU. And, you are either in or you are not. You cannot just pick the good stuff and leave others to deal with the bad stuff.

 

Germany had to put up with immigrants and refugees much longer than any other country in Europe and it was accepted until the economy went down and all of a sudden those people became the problem. Not the fact that managers moved an entire sector (textile industry) across the borders, not that the educational system hasn't had changes for ages, not the tax system that allows big corporations (German and otherwise) to pay less tax than small businesses.

 

It's the poltiticians who set the tone, and it's easier to play the "blame the foreigners" game than actually to improve the situation by reforming the government of the country. Don't you think it's strange that London property is bought up by rich foreigeners, which drives up the housing prices, forcing small or medium income workers to move elsewhere, yet noone in Westminster is saying or doing anything against it?

 The same politicians, who in September begged the Scots to vote "No" with the argument of a united Europe are now going the opposite way. Why? Because they lost some seats in Westminster to UKIP and all of a sudden the EU is bad.

It's not the EU's fault that the Jobcenters have been set up to hand out benefits rather than to help people to find or qualify for jobs, and it's not the EU'S fault that anyone who makes it into the country can claim those benefits. That's local legislation.

 

Well, since this discussion leads nowhere (and before we end up comparing the actual situation to that in 1933 and the rise of a certain Austrian), I'm locking this thread!


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"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.





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