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#19 Henry Hall

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 12:06 PM

The decision would be easier if the alternatives were tailoring vs banking or tailoring vs burger flipping.

 

You know, if my serious choices were tailoring vs banking, I'd have to take the banking. You can retire much earlier with enough on your capital to sit around making clothes until you croak. It's cynical, but true. The world of work in 2015 is quite perverse in that way.


Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

- Otto Jespersen (How to Teach a Foreign Language).


#20 beaubrummel

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 12:08 PM

 

 

I see lots of nicely dressed women with guys in jeans, chinos, non-ironic-ironic baseball caps, and sneakers -- they do spend money on prestige sports sneakers.  A lot of men are still trying to live as permanent post-adolescents.

Very (and sadly) true. I wear a suit everyday and prefer wearing suits and slacks even when not working or doing anything more formal. Makes me feel good. I don't understand the fascination with 'dressing down' especially when its also become quite expensive; alexander mcqueen tshirts run into the $600+, and popular sneakers i've seen sell for similar prices and over $1,000. Its a different market though. The issues I foresee is the fact that tailored suits is not only a very particular market, its a saturated market through the fault of consumers. Consumers expect the best and expect to pay the lowest price for it. Especially in clothing which is why so much has been moved to china. Its not to throw them under the bus, there are plenty of quality tailors there, but its increasingly difficult to compete against them due to cost. 



#21 Henry Hall

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 12:24 PM

I always wonder how someone can 'design' a t-shirt. A t-shirt only has one design and not one of them can sensibly be valued at $600.


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Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

- Otto Jespersen (How to Teach a Foreign Language).


#22 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 01:26 PM

It's the world of the BRAND NAME. That is all that seems to matter.  A lot of people have spent an unbelievable amount of money to make it so.

 

I don't like that and of course neither do many many people but to vast numbers that is all that counts.

 

Also really don't know if this is a major factor but at least 20 years ago I fancied that the problem for tailors was at least partly of their own making.

 

There seemed such a veil of secrecy around the art that folks just forgot why it it was better.

 

Then it was easy or easier for the RTW industry to sneak in.  The profits from virtually slave labor and the negligible prices are hard for folks to walk past.

 

I know that that war has been going for a lot longer than 20 years, maybe more like 100 years but I doubt whether many people have any clue about a well fitting suit.


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#23 beaubrummel

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 03:18 PM

 

You know, if my serious choices were tailoring vs banking, I'd have to take the banking. You can retire much earlier with enough on your capital to sit around making clothes until you croak. It's cynical, but true. The world of work in 2015 is quite perverse in that way.

I just left banking. Believe me, having a clean conscience is much better than money. That world has the surrounded by a veil of inconsistencies of grandeur and wealth. Besides, success truly is a relative term. I know plenty of wealthy guys who are ready to jump in front of a train. And I know people who are happier than a puppy with peanut butter living rather normal lives. If you enjoy what you do, that can very well be enough. Within reason of course, one still needs to earn a living to be able to support themselves and so forth, but take it from me, large sums of money is not the end all factor. 

 

I also agree about branding, it's shameful how uneducated consumers are. A close friend bought a Tom Ford tuxedo for his wedding, despite my protest and advice to just get bespoke. he spent $7400, and while the tuxedo was nice, and fit marginally well, it was bought off the rack and altered. But to him, it was Tom Ford so it was worth it. 

 

With shoes, to me anyway, I think there is a much better understanding of what quality is compared to price. More people are more willing to spend that extra premium for better quality shoes than they are to spend it on suits. 


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#24 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 03:45 PM

I like what you say all up beaubrummel, but that is a very good point about the shoes.  I think people do understand the expense of shoes better, even if that is a crazy position.

 

My day job is as a Physiotherapist/osteopath.  We learned how to examine very deeply the internal creases and misalignments of the human body. In a way it is something like a bespoke manual therapist.   On top of that I got to a point where I am able to develop new and original techniques to solve persistent problems.

 

Yet this is in a world of exercise therapy joint crackers and other useless practices.  I have yet to meet any professional in this country able to reasonably discuss the things I know, let alone my patients.  I get continued business only by persistent education of my clients, trying to explain complicated things in simple terms.  

 

Many years ago I studied Tai Chi under a Chinese Master, for seven years.  He informed us that there were open fist and close fist teachers of martial arts. The later held back important information, the former revealed everything a student should know at the right time.

 

Clear and honest information is essential for trust when you face the huge enemies of Brand Dominance.


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#25 tailleuse

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 01:12 AM

I always wonder how someone can 'design' a t-shirt. A t-shirt only has one design and not one of them can sensibly be valued at $600.

 

$600 is exorbitant, but T shirts do differ significantly in fit, workmanship, and fabric.  On my endless list of future sewing projects is development of the perfect T shirt for me.


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#26 Henry Hall

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 03:08 AM

On my way to work there is a shop that designs, makes and and prints its own t-shirts - they have a huge press at the back of the shop. They're nice designs for people who like -t-shirts, but still... they're just t-shirts and they really do all look the same. I quite believe that the t-shirt industry is like making soup from from a rusty nail (fairy tale reference).

Edited by Henry Hall, 24 January 2015 - 10:20 AM.

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Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

- Otto Jespersen (How to Teach a Foreign Language).


#27 tailleuse

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 05:08 AM

On my way to work there is a shop that designs, makes and and prints its own t-shirts - they have a huge press at the back of the shop. They're nice designs for people who like -t-shirts, but still... they're just t-shirts and they really do all look the same. I quite believe that the t-shirt industry is like making soup from from a rusty nail (fairly tale reference).

 

I recently compared a free class at a fabric store to "Stone Soup."  They offered a sewing space for two hours and a teacher, which is nice, but you had to buy a pattern (I bought it at the store for three times what I would have paid if I'd bought it online), tools (those I had, but they offered a $90 kit), fabric, etc.

 

Not all basics are the same. For example, for years I wore black or navy sheath dresses.  Ostensibly, they were identical, but some fit better than others. I saved the one that fit exceptionally well and am trying to copy it.  Studying it has made me aware of small details I never noticed before, especially before I started to learn how to sew.

 

I was in a Barney's and came across some James Perse T shirts.  They may not be worth $150, but they are nicer than Hanes.


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#28 cperry

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 09:39 AM

I would have to agree with Tailleuse in the upper Midwest; it's similar here.  I did laugh at the point ChiTownTailor made; my husband was dressed nicely when I first met him at a wedding.  Eighteen years later, a bunch of kids; not bad at all.  First impressions do matter.  (But neither of us looked like ChiTownTailor's picture ever!)

 

My husband works at an office (computer engineering) where even the boss dresses in jeans, t-shirt, whatever, most of the time.  As my kids and I have become more conscious of matters of dress and taste, we've had those "tee hee hee" moments, realizing people are dressing as if they are heading to the barn to do the chores.  (Yes, I was a country kid.)  On a related funny note, one day, my husband wore a tie to work (I guess he just felt like it.), and he was told, "don't do that too often; they might come to expect it!"

 

It may seem odd, but my husband has noticed that he thinks more clearly when his clothing fits right; it frees him to do a better job, and that's whether he's wearing wool slacks or jeans.  And he's far more comfortable in natural fiber than sticky polyester.

 

On shoes, he learned the hard way in college that the price of good shoes is far less expensive than a trip to the podiatrist.

 

I'm not a judge of the markets, but I do think Schneidergott (I think) made some good suggestions in a different thread on holding real life sessions to explain and promote the idea of bespoke tailoring.  I would guess there's a lot of people who haven't heard of the idea, but if they knew they had the option for good fit and could afford it, the choice would be quick and easy. 

 

In the U.S., it should be noted that there is very little education currently in the public schools related to clothing, fabric quality, etc.  Most people are taught to look for the sales and pay attention only to the name brand.  I think tailors need to start from the basics in explaining the differences between off-the-rack, made-to-measure, and bespoke....and then slowly explain the difference between good cloth and made-to-wear-out cloth. 

 

I think a lot of people are hungry for something that is not disposable in this day and age.


Edited by cperry, 24 January 2015 - 10:06 AM.

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#29 Henry Hall

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 10:35 AM

I think a lot of people are hungry for something that is not disposable in this day and age.


And that probably explains some of the wonder people display when seeing something made by a person's own hands. After the advent of mass production it has become normalised that not many objects are unique and certainly that hardly anything has hours worth of someone's knowledge and skill in it. The idea was expressed by Walter Benjamin in his essay The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction.
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Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

- Otto Jespersen (How to Teach a Foreign Language).


#30 cperry

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 05:47 AM

Thinking of the generations coming up, something I had to smile at with local young teens over the past few years.  Some of the young girls have figured out how square those typical t-shirts really are that they purchase at the store or are given for various youth activities.  They started a bit of a trend gathering their t-shirt to the back and fastening it with a hair tie, and then they tuck the "tail" so to speak up and under.  Maybe that's the generation who will seek out the tailor. :)

 

Here's also a little encouragement for the tailor:

 

http://www.postbulle...d9244aad08.html


Edited by cperry, 25 January 2015 - 07:17 AM.

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#31 cthomas

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 08:01 PM

I always wonder how someone can 'design' a t-shirt. A t-shirt only has one design and not one of them can sensibly be valued at $600.

 

There are quite a few factors that play into that... the general quality of the product, the number of products (less produced is more expensive and more exclusive), the design that did go into the t-shirt (while many brands have their basic items like a t-shirt that have a cheaper 'set' price, they often also have more special seasonal versions with changed seaming, fabric or print that are for those reasons also more expensive) and the overall price of the collection. If they sell €1000,- trousers or jeans, then they can't go and sell €30,- t-shirts because the difference in price category would be too different and it wouldn't fit their brand image. The products would then not even be able to hang in the same stores, because the luxury stores that would sell the trousers won't want to sell such cheap t-shirts.

 

The fact that there has been a trend going of luxury streetwear of course makes for more and more expensive 'casual' items like trackpants, t-shirts, etc... Especially young men seem to be buying more luxury brands nowadays (influenced possibly by celebrities like Kanye West), but they don't wear suits, but streetwear. Brands are playing into that.

 

Here in the Netherlands, where we have quite a big jeans culture I've also seen the ateliers or tailors (usually not classical trained tailors) popping up that make tailored denim-products. This I think is a very interesting development and has a big future, if people are willing to spend extra for basic items that fit them perfectly then a tailor could probably make them a better t-shirt for less than a designer.


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#32 Henry Hall

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 09:34 PM

There are not many major 'design' elements that anyone can put into a t-shirt because it has already been designed. I don't think putting a print onto it or double stitching the seams counts as design innovation. There is probably more design in socks, since these can be knitted into quite intricate patterns. Anyone wanting to pay $600 for socks is an incurable fool and likewise with a t-shirt.

 

I live in the Netherlands too. I'm less certain about the bright future for custom denim. High-end (i.e. overpriced) jeans are sufficient to satisfy most people's requirements. The fit of some jeans brands is very good indeed and also satisfies the consumption impatience that now characterises Dutch culture. 

 

Personally I think the Dutch are amongst the worst-dressed people in Europe.


Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

- Otto Jespersen (How to Teach a Foreign Language).


#33 cthomas

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 09:13 AM

Oh I certainly agree that the Dutch standards on dressing are quite sad indeed. 



#34 tailleuse

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 11:42 AM

 

Here in the Netherlands, where we have quite a big jeans culture I've also seen the ateliers or tailors (usually not classical trained tailors) popping up that make tailored denim-products. This I think is a very interesting development and has a big future, if people are willing to spend extra for basic items that fit them perfectly then a tailor could probably make them a better t-shirt for less than a designer.

 

It is interesting. A tailor might be able to make a better T-shirt for an individual than a designer, but for less? Designers (not couturiers) enjoy economies of scale. Plus, T-shirts require different equipment and skills.


Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#35 greger

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 06:18 PM

When I was a boy there were form fitting t-shirts - a stretchy weave. There were regular under shirts.

#36 cthomas

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 06:25 PM

 

It is interesting. A tailor might be able to make a better T-shirt for an individual than a designer, but for less? Designers (not couturiers) enjoy economies of scale. Plus, T-shirts require different equipment and skills.

 

 

well compared to the €600,- designer one, time and fabric wise probably or not? 






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