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Help with fitting men's shirt muslin


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#1 benjaminh

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 03:44 PM

I'm new to this forum, sewing, and shirtmaking, and am looking for some help with fitting my shirt muslin. I've posted a link to pics below; what I observe is that there are two folds of extra fabric near each armscye on the front, the yoke may be too long, the neck should come up some at the front, and the back has too much material. The first thing I noticed when trying on the muslin was that the fronts were too small, so I pinned a strip of material between the plackets to space them, just to simulate what I think should be the proper front size for when I was photographing. Have I correctly identified the fit issues, and how should I resolve them.

 

http://www.mediafire.../?bf63ai1a03982

 

Just as a note, I realize that some of my seams, particularly the small 1/8" flat felled sleeve and side seams need some work, since initially making this muslin I've worked on my technique there and have seen great improvement. As well, I'd like to thank DPC for his fantastic book: the only reason this muslin even looks remotely like a shirt.

 

Benjamin



#2 lngn2

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 05:50 PM

Looks pretty good to me - others will be able to give you useful advice...

#3 peterle

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 08:00 PM

First of all, too much work for a muslin. You don´t do all the details in a muslin.

Please secure the neckhole with a row of stay stitching to prevent it from stretching. A stretched neckhole makes fitting impossible.

BTW, is there any sewing allowance left in the neckhole? It seems a lot too big in my eyes. I would like to see a pic pinned with the original front lines to compare.

 

The balance of the shirt is a bit off: The back balance could be shorter for about 1,5 cm and the front balance could be a bit longer. ( just pin away a horizontal fold across the back from armhole to armhole, taking out 1,5cm to get an impression).

 

I also think your shoulders are too wide. The armhole seam at the shoulder should be about 4-5 red stripes nearer to the neck. (maybe that´s what you meant by a too long yoke?)

 

I don´t think the back has too much material. I think you need this because of Your protruding terrier. You evetually can add darts later to reduce the material in the waist area.


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#4 benjaminh

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 09:24 AM

First of all, too much work for a muslin. You don´t do all the details in a muslin.

Please secure the neckhole with a row of stay stitching to prevent it from stretching. A stretched neckhole makes fitting impossible.

BTW, is there any sewing allowance left in the neckhole? It seems a lot too big in my eyes. I would like to see a pic pinned with the original front lines to compare.

 

The balance of the shirt is a bit off: The back balance could be shorter for about 1,5 cm and the front balance could be a bit longer. ( just pin away a horizontal fold across the back from armhole to armhole, taking out 1,5cm to get an impression).

 

I also think your shoulders are too wide. The armhole seam at the shoulder should be about 4-5 red stripes nearer to the neck. (maybe that´s what you meant by a too long yoke?)

 

I don´t think the back has too much material. I think you need this because of Your protruding terrier. You evetually can add darts later to reduce the material in the waist area.

 

Thanks for all that advice, I really appreciate it. I realise that I've done more here than is necessary for a muslin, but I also wanted to get some general sewing practice on this cheap material  (specifically the shoulder and side seams, as I anticipated difficulties with those) before moving onto higher quality fabric.

 

We're definitely agreed on the shoulders, that's what I was meaning by the yoke being too long. Am I correct in assuming the correct way to resolve this issue is by reshaping the body armscye? I think that I could either pivot the top of armscye hole inwards toward the neck, which would bring the bottom up as well. If I need the bottom of the armscye to remain at the same height, I could just reshape the top of the armscye, bringing it closer to the neck, and then modify my sleeve cap to fit the longer length of body armscye. Let me know if this is correct.

 

I gave your balancing recommendation a shot, and it made an incredible difference on the back. Now all the back needs is two darts, or perhaps some more waist suppression in the side seams? Anyway, how do I transfer the change I made in the back balance with the pins to the pattern? What do I need to change in the way I cut the back? Forgive the rookie questions.

 

Benjamin


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#5 peterle

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 09:29 PM

You alter the back balance by just drawing the yoke seam line of the back lower for the desired amount. This will shorten the back armhole also and maybe makes the bottom line of the armhole a bit to high. 

 

Or you resew the side seams but shift the fronts upwards for the desired amount. Then you have to reshape the bottom of the front armhole and the hem of the back.When you have a waist surpression you also have to shift the back waist line upwards for the same amount.

 

For altering the shoulder width take the yoke piece and draw the new armhole line parallely to the old in the chosen distance. Than attach the back pattern like it wold be sewn to the yoke and redraw the armhole line from the new yoke points running into the existing bottom line of the armhole. Do the same with the front pattern. Don´t change the sleeve cap yet. Just remeasure, wether the sleeve cap line is long enough for the new armscye. It should be a least the same length, preferebly a bit longer than the armhole.

 

How much waist surpression do you have now? Don´t remove more than 2,5cm (5cm total) in a side seam.


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#6 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 10:13 PM

Protruding terrier indeed! :D


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#7 benjaminh

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 08:28 AM

You alter the back balance by just drawing the yoke seam line of the back lower for the desired amount. This will shorten the back armhole also and maybe makes the bottom line of the armhole a bit to high. 

 

Or you resew the side seams but shift the fronts upwards for the desired amount. Then you have to reshape the bottom of the front armhole and the hem of the back.When you have a waist surpression you also have to shift the back waist line upwards for the same amount.

 

For altering the shoulder width take the yoke piece and draw the new armhole line parallely to the old in the chosen distance. Than attach the back pattern like it wold be sewn to the yoke and redraw the armhole line from the new yoke points running into the existing bottom line of the armhole. Do the same with the front pattern. Don´t change the sleeve cap yet. Just remeasure, wether the sleeve cap line is long enough for the new armscye. It should be a least the same length, preferebly a bit longer than the armhole.

 

How much waist surpression do you have now? Don´t remove more than 2,5cm (5cm total) in a side seam.

 

 

So all I have to do to correct the balance is add ~1.5cm to the back of the yoke? Of course I'd have to take a corresponding amount off the top of the back. How does this change anything? Forgive my ignorance, but it seems that my shirt would still have the exact same shape if I did this, as I'd just be transferring back material to the yoke. Please inform me of what I'm missing. 

 

Altering the shoulder width makes complete sense, no issues understanding that.

 

Currently, I have 3cm in the front and 1.5cm in the back piece for seam waist suppression. Should waist suppression (I'm assuming this refers to the dip in the side seam) be equal on front and back pieces?



#8 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:46 PM

Grauenvoll, das Forum ist voellig verkommem. Es sollte geschlossen werden.


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#9 benjaminh

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:53 PM

Grauenvoll, das Forum ist voellig verkommem. Es sollte geschlossen werden.

 

Could you explain? I believe that this statement translated reads something like: "Horrible, the forum is completely wrong. It should be closed." So far, I think the advice of the members here has been great.



#10 peterle

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 08:15 PM

Well, Zuschneiders post raises the niveau of the forum enormously.

 

To the issues:

No, you don´t add anything to the yoke. It stays like it is. You just crop the back pattern piece.

Please inform yourself about the topic balance and it´s terms. It is very important to understand it and there are tons of threads about it. And please inform yourself about the terms in tailoring. Indeed we can´t explain every single word.

 

Yes, the waist surpression of the side seam of a shirt is usually equal in front and back. What pattern/drafting system did You use? Or is it a readymade pattern? A pic would be helpful.


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#11 benjaminh

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 03:23 AM

Well, Zuschneiders post raises the niveau of the forum enormously.

 

To the issues:

No, you don´t add anything to the yoke. It stays like it is. You just crop the back pattern piece.

Please inform yourself about the topic balance and it´s terms. It is very important to understand it and there are tons of threads about it. And please inform yourself about the terms in tailoring. Indeed we can´t explain every single word.

 

Yes, the waist surpression of the side seam of a shirt is usually equal in front and back. What pattern/drafting system did You use? Or is it a readymade pattern? A pic would be helpful.

 

I am working on learning as much as possible with regards to tailoring, and have been reading a lot on this forum. I definitely realize that I shouldn't think that this forum's purpose is to guide me through all the basics. Unfortunately, I don't know any actual tailors here who could help me, so I have to depend on books.

 

Regarding fitting, you've cleared up the confusion nicely, thank you.

 

The pattern I used for this is just one I made by copying an MTM shirt I had that fit me relatively well, relatively being the key word. I'm rather tall and slim, so I doubted that any commercially made pattern would be a very good starting point, this is why I chose to copy a shirt. I've attached a photo of the pattern pieces below.

 

Attached File  IMG_8929-min.JPG   171.87KB   0 downloads



#12 benjaminh

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 12:10 PM

How much waist surpression do you have now? Don´t remove more than 2,5cm (5cm total) in a side seam.

 

Is the 5cm you speak of total waist supression, i.e. both side seams, or in one side seam?



#13 peterle

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 07:54 PM

The 5cm is for one side seam.

Be sure to take out the same amount from front and back. Otherwise (like in your pattern) the more curved seam gets too long to match the other piece.

 

Your pattern is lacking the chestline and the waistline. It also lacks the center front line ( on wich buttons and button holes are placed). These are important construction lines.

Also your sleeve pattern is wrong. Always draft the whole sleeve. Your sleeve crown is quite on the higher side, so your back crown curve should be fuller than the front.

 

I suggest you work through a shirt pattern draft instruction to get an idea of the pattern costruction. Otherwise you could use a commercial pattern. It´s not easy to copy an existing shirt without pattern drafting knowledge.



#14 benjaminh

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 10:54 AM

The 5cm is for one side seam.

Be sure to take out the same amount from front and back. Otherwise (like in your pattern) the more curved seam gets too long to match the other piece.

 

Your pattern is lacking the chestline and the waistline. It also lacks the center front line ( on wich buttons and button holes are placed). These are important construction lines.

Also your sleeve pattern is wrong. Always draft the whole sleeve. Your sleeve crown is quite on the higher side, so your back crown curve should be fuller than the front.

 

I suggest you work through a shirt pattern draft instruction to get an idea of the pattern costruction. Otherwise you could use a commercial pattern. It´s not easy to copy an existing shirt without pattern drafting knowledge.

 

 

Thanks for the clarification about the side seam. 

 

Would you suggest that I start over, using the Rundschau draft: http://movsd.com/BespokeCutter/index.php?topic=95.0? 



#15 peterle

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 08:13 PM

Yes You could. It´s quite wide and old fashioned.

 

Maybe this is a bit more like todays fashion:

http://movsd.com/Bes....php?topic=72.0

 

When you prefer german, french or italian you can have a look in these books, wich also include shirt drafts:

http://www.intermode.org/



#16 benjaminh

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 02:33 PM



Yes You could. It´s quite wide and old fashioned.

 

Maybe this is a bit more like todays fashion:

http://movsd.com/Bes....php?topic=72.0

 

When you prefer german, french or italian you can have a look in these books, wich also include shirt drafts:

http://www.intermode.org/

 

Thanks for the suggestion for the more fitted draft. I worked on that tonight, and have completed a pattern for the body. Next up will be making a muslin, this time only the body.

 

ns1501jldnxl01o4g.jpg

 

One question though, the top of the back is generally curved down towards the armscye seam. The pattern states that this should be no larger that 1/4" "for mass production." However, on my last shirt, this curve dipped over an 1" down. Which is more likely to produce a proper fit?


Edited by benjaminh, 16 February 2018 - 02:37 PM.


#17 peterle

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 07:41 PM

1/4" seems a bit small in my eyes. Dont´worry about it too much. The right amount depends on your individual back and is done when fitting.

 

Did you draft the pattern with your measurements?

 

Please recheck the top of your sides seam. It takes a different run than in the instructions. It should have a slight S form.

 

For balance fitting please keep some inlays at the yoke seam of the back and the shoulder seams of the front.



#18 benjaminh

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 01:22 AM

1/4" seems a bit small in my eyes. Dont´worry about it too much. The right amount depends on your individual back and is done when fitting.

 

Did you draft the pattern with your measurements?

 

Please recheck the top of your sides seam. It takes a different run than in the instructions. It should have a slight S form.

 

For balance fitting please keep some inlays at the yoke seam of the back and the shoulder seams of the front.

 

Yes, this is made with my measurements.

 

Could you explain the side seam error? The only explanation the draft gives is "shape side seam as indicated." On the actual draft it just shows the side seams as a straight lines, which I took the liberty to curve, as this is how I've always seen them.






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