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#91 SPOOKIETOO

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 06:23 AM

Greger - are you talking about practicing with a machine on paper (which I did when I first sat at a machine) or are you talking about some kind of hand work practice- which I've never heard of before - you lost me on this one. (which given my day thus far, isn't hard to do.)



#92 hutch48

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 08:42 AM

Tom,

 

Hand overcasting had its place long ago but almost every tailor I have ever known has an overlocker set up for edging and it applies to securing the edges of cuffs on trousers, the edges of open seams and often the insides of pockets before they are sewn in, either by hand or machine. While there is no rush, over time you will end up owning an overlocker because they are so useful. Probably the most useful is a 4 thread machine that has differential feed for fabrics that are prone to stretching while they are being sewn. If the machine is strong enough you can set it up for structural work, twin #75 needle thread and #120 loopers if you need to make strong clothing where on the other end when you are securing single layers, finer thread for the needles (#120) and one of the specialised threads like Coates GRAMAX for the loopers will give you very thin open seam edges that iron down very flat.

 

The win with an overlocker that you are familiar with and understand is speed and this matters if you want to produce your own custom clothing in a reasonable time frame. By being fast with the hack work, it gives you more time to perform the more complex work that takes more time and thought.



#93 tailleuse

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 10:15 AM

Thanks for the link Tailleuse excellent exercises. I take it they are printed on A4?

 

I think hand-overcasting is a throwback to when there were no overlockers, I hand overcast you still get little ends that fray out a little but it stops them fraying any further. Also overcasting by hand is probably the thinnish finishing one can get, well that is my assumption.  If the cloth frays particularly badly I've been overcasting the hidden edges with basting thread. I like the hong-kong finish, very neat especially around the fly's buttonhole strip.

 

 

I don't know.  I joined the forum to get the full scans. But I'm sure there's a way to copy them as is and paste to sheet of paper. Mine fit on American 8 1/2 x 11" paper.

 

Hand overcasting definitely preceded overlockers, but it is still used today in bespoke tailoring and couture either because of client preference or because the hand overcasting is lighter and won't create a ridge that could be seen on the outside of the fabric. If I were doing it to try to prevent fraying, I'd do it in both directions.  It's not always appropriate, but I like the Hong Kong finish best.  I learned a very good way to do the stitch in the ditch (that expression offends some people, but I'm not sure why) by hand.


Edited by tailleuse, 16 October 2015 - 10:16 AM.

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#94 tailleuse

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 10:23 AM

 

The win with an overlocker that you are familiar with and understand is speed and this matters if you want to produce your own custom clothing in a reasonable time frame. By being fast with the hack work, it gives you more time to perform the more complex work that takes more time and thought.

 

The overlocker is much faster, and if you're not good at hand overcasting, better looking.  One thing though:  You can't cut a hole in your garment or end up with uneven seam allowances or missed spots with a needle and thread.  

 

I learned on a very fast industrial overlocker called a Merrow machine. They're apparently workhorses; I once was in a shop in the Garment Center that sold old inventory when a sewing machine technician came in to buy parts for one. They are a pain in the neck to thread from scratch.


Edited by tailleuse, 16 October 2015 - 10:24 AM.

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#95 tailleuse

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 10:37 AM

What is a Hong Kong finish Tailleuse?

 

It's a seam finish that is used by sewing a bias strip to a single seam allowance and wrapping it to the back.  The bound seam finish is similar, but thicker, because double fold bias strip or tape is used.  Both are decorative and often used with unlined garments, although I have seen the Hong Kong finish used with a lined skirt.

 

Tip:  Cut the bias strip wider than you think you'll need.  You can always trim it later.  In the past, I had trouble with strips that I must have cut too narrow and it was struggle to wrap them around the seam allowance.


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#96 greger

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 05:21 PM

Greger - are you talking about practicing with a machine on paper (which I did when I first sat at a machine) or are you talking about some kind of hand work practice- which I've never heard of before - you lost me on this one. (which given my day thus far, isn't hard to do.)


Sewing machine.

I guess you could practice on paper along the edge for button hole. Even spacing and same distance from the edge. It would show very clearly how well one is doing.

#97 tombennett

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 06:30 PM

Hi Hutch, I do actually own a 4 thread domestic singer overlocker but I managed to do something with it when some horrible fabric jammed.  I only picked it up at Lidl for £135, way under the recommended retail price; they sell some strange things for a grocers' shop.  I will pick up another, better overlocker at some point, either a second hand industrial or a top end domestic.  The little singer, although clanky, was a great machine with differential feed.  I do however get fed up with, as Tailleuse points out it is possible to end up with a bit of a mess and awkward seam allowances.  Obviously if one uses it everyday then these issues don't arise, I remember my old tutor doing it flat out and one handed while talking to the students; straight is okay but inside curves are a nightmare.

 

I like the Hong-Kong finish, I have seen many bespoke garments finished with it.  I might start using it though, nevertheless it can leave a mark on the right side if the seams are not carefully pressed.

 

Tip:  Cut the bias strip wider than you think you'll need.  You can always trim it later.  In the past, I had trouble with strips that I must have cut too narrow and it was struggle to wrap them around the seam allowance.

 

It is surprising how much wider a strip than one would think, I had problems on one pair of trousers I made.  I use it for the buttonhole strip, it is the only way I can think off to make the raw edge look presentable; of course Hutch, I could overlock it. :Talking Ear Off: :im Not Worthy: I think I will start looking out for a decent overlocker. :thumbsup:

 

I've printed out the tests from the thumbnail images on the instruction page, then blew them up on the mac before printing out on A4 (a tad bigger than US letter paper @ 210x297mm).  The images are a little fuzzy but, still perfectly serviceable.  This Brother machine is very fast, I'm having real trouble trying to tame it!  I do about an hour per day playing about with it, both with paper and scraps of calico.

 

Anyhoo: Onwards and upwards, it's all about practice.


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#98 Henry Hall

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 08:23 PM

It may be in that Savile Row interviews video where Joseph Morgan, of Chittleborough & Morgan, says they hand overcast. It's hard to know if they say, and do, these things just to distinguish themselves further from machine-made, or if they see real value in it.

 

I have a pair of trousers I wear in winter (mostly at home when not expecting visitors) that were made in the '50s. It's a heavier cloth (probably what DZ would call 'carpet') and the seams have been hand-serged. It works better with heavier, denser cloths than with lighter cloths.

 

I use an overlocker, but sometimes get annoyed with it. On Wednesday I serged-in some linings with trouser topsides, but the  lighter the outer cloth, the more opportunity there seems to be for problems. This time I couldn't make it around some of the inner curves without distortion. It also got distorted at the top of the sideseam. I just clipped it and the pocket bag will cover that.

 

I didn't know the name of a 'Hong Kong' finish, but I know the method. I have to say I bound the fly of the last pair of trews on both sides (and by hand). It's not bulky. I was concerned that if I left the underpart unstitched that it wouldn't be caught in curve of the fly topstiching because it doesn't always follow the outer curve exactly.


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#99 hutch48

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 07:17 AM

Henry is right here, there are some radiuses that are too small to overlock properly. On almost everything I make in trousers, I can just overlock the inner leg seam but one thing I make the radius is too small and I have to do it the old way. I use a triple stitch on the required seam line, trim outside the seam line to the width of my widest zig zag, then zig zag across the stitch line to the edge to secure it properly. Then turn the garment right side up and flat fell the seam.

 

RE the new machine "taking off" on you, there may be a clutch adjustment that makes it a bit more progressive but industrial straight sewers generally run at one speed and the clutch just gives you some adjustment on how hard it bites. If you learnt on machines like your new one, you will tend to pick up the habit of doing finer stitching in short grabs rather than just stamping on the pedal but with practice you will start to enjoy the grunt of your new machine.

 

PS: I had a quick look at the manual from Brother for your model and recommend that you download it from Brother.

 

http://www.brother-u...ls#.ViFsf0chDyw


Edited by hutch48, 17 October 2015 - 07:31 AM.


#100 tombennett

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 06:43 PM

Hi Hutch, I think I will continue, for now to overcast my seams until I find a cheap 2nd hand ind. overlocker, saying that I do like the look of a neatly hand-overcast edge.  Thanks for the link to the manual, it seems, however that it is for an F-40 computerised machine though I have downloaded the parts book.  I have been practicing and now getting the hang of it, I might try it on a seam this week. Yes it was short bursts of stitching I learnt to do, which I am doing.

 

Thanks for all the advice.

 

tom.



#101 tailleuse

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 01:32 AM

 

RE the new machine "taking off" on you, there may be a clutch adjustment that makes it a bit more progressive but industrial straight sewers generally run at one speed...

 

I've had clutch industrial machines "take off" on me all the time.  It's happened to the teacher too.  There's one machine of which we're all a little wary.  The mechanic needs to spend some time with it.


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#102 tombennett

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 07:06 PM

I think I have it under control now, it's just not pushing through the initial noise of the motor. I'm going to try and find a manual for the motor itself. Still, a long way to go; onwards and, upwards.

 

tom.


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#103 tailleuse

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 05:49 PM

I think I have it under control now, it's just not pushing through the initial noise of the motor. I'm going to try and find a manual for the motor itself. Still, a long way to go; onwards and, upwards.

 

tom.

 

Everyone I know who has worked at it consistently has gotten better fast. I recently met a man who appeared to be in his late twenties.  He wants to apply to a fashion design school. He was doing exercises on the industrial and would even like to do a stint at a sewing factory to build skills and speed.


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#104 tombennett

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 11:55 AM

That sounds like an excellent idea, if I were a little younger. I copied all of the exercises onto calico with a fine pen and, without thread I have been doing those daily. I plan on keeping up on the practice with my calico squares for quite a while yet, even if I am using it on garment production.  Just got a nice bit of flannel to use as my first pair on the new machine, though, I do a lot of work by hand.


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#105 tailleuse

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 11:39 AM

I plan on keeping up on the practice with my calico squares for quite a while yet, even if I am using it on garment production.  

 

I think that's a great idea. If I had my own industrial machine, I'd try to put in some time on them several times a week.


Edited by tailleuse, 23 October 2015 - 11:39 AM.

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#106 ThomD

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 07:40 AM

There is a sequence to running the clutch where you tap the pedal first, then you press down.  Not sure why it works, maybe the clutch is sticky and tapping it opens it up and lets it start up more smoothly when the time to add the power comes.

 

That said, a servo motor will solve all those problems, you can run them stitch by stitch or flat out.  And the prices are around 100 dollars with careful shopping.  With leather there isn't any ripping out the stitches and resewing, if you make a mistake.  So they have really caught on there, even though most of us learned the two step first.  Some people were running the clutch motors with a hand on the wheel, so the servo also frees up a hand, though I think that was a bad habit.  One only needs to blow one small project and the motor is paid for.


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#107 tombennett

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 10:54 PM

Just looked and it is a clutch motor, as I thought. I'll try the tap and go method, I seem to remember something about that from distant past.  I'll have to get one, they seem to range between £130 to £180.  I'll have to get one, should have thought about it when I bought the machine.

 

 

Have just been browsing eBay, they have a few which I am not sure about but these two look okay, does anyone have any thoughts?

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

and this, which I think is my favourite, as they are a Brother re-seller.

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...gEAAOSwLzdWTanq


Edited by tombennett, 19 November 2015 - 11:10 PM.


#108 HurstFred

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 12:52 AM

Informative Thread.

 






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