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Drafting for 40s style wide leg trousers


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#1 catechumen

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 09:41 PM

I'm currently researching before I start a draft for some 1940s style trousers (the iconic wide leg with turnup). Because I enjoy a challenge and also for a modicum of historical accuracy, the draft instructions I'm using are from "The Modern Tailor Outfitter and Clothier - Vol. I" by A. S. Bridgland, which appears to date from the late forties. The intended results look similar to the example used in the trousers section of the Master Designer sticky in this forum.

 

However, having read Schneidergott's thread about the relationship between knee and crotch width, I find myself wondering. Exactly how wide is wide in 40s fashion terms, and is cutting a straight style of leg purely a matter of picking a number for the hem width and going from there? Or is the ideal hem width relative to body meaurements? David Page Coffin's book on trousers examines a lovely 1932 pair; sadly he doesn't give a measurement of the hem but based on counting the pattern repeats in the fabric(!) I make them about 18", which is a figure I've also heard quoted on websites selling reproduction 40s styles. Then I looked at a couple of pairs of modern dress trousers I own, and found that although they're definitely not cut like what I'm interested in they're still around 18" at the hem. Now I'm rather broad in the beam at the moment, so that again suggests that hem width is relative to the body rather than an arbitrary number. I'm getting steadily more confused - can anyone enlighten me?



#2 fronno

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 02:32 AM

Hello Catechumen,

About 40's I can not help you. But the formula for the width at the hem (I am talking about the total hem width) is 4/8 of your waist. But.......e.g.  having a waist of round and about 122 centimeters that would look awfull. I never exceeds a total width of 44 centimeters.

But If I would have tot draw such a pair of trousers I should start at the big hip line and working my way down untill I arrive at the hem with probably indeed 18 inch.


Edited by fronno, 14 May 2017 - 02:36 AM.

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#3 posaune

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 06:33 AM

I think the hem width was a fashion dictation as par example skirt length or lapel width
lg posaune
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#4 A TAILOR

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 11:38 AM

1949,Thats when I began my apprenticeship.

 Trouser bottoms averaged 18 inches.  The standard cuffs finished at 1 and 3/4 inches wide.

The knee measure, 2 or 3 inches larger than the bottom.

This worked for seat measures of 40 to 46 inches. 

For larger or smaller sizes use your judgement.                                                                         . 


Edited by A TAILOR, 14 May 2017 - 11:54 AM.

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#5 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 11:43 AM

Just use a new trouser draft with the old hip ease and foot wide. From hip to foot straighten it out and go in 1 cm at the knee.


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#6 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 02:17 PM

You could always just draft them from a contemporary source.

 

http://www.cutterand...?showtopic=2083   look down to pg 406 - 407.

 

After all how different is 1938 from 1940?  

 

Ooops.


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Me zo ganet e-kreiz ar mor 
Teir leo er-maez


#7 pfaff260

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 03:36 PM

I found a Rundschau draft from 1947. It looks a lot like Schneiderfrei's proposal.

But the hem is even wider, for a 122 cm waist they state 54 cm for the trouser bottom,

and for a more fashionable pair of trousers for a waist 88 they tell us to draw the leg a little bit smaller, which still is 50 cm.

Which would be almost 20 inches


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#8 pfaff260

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 08:11 PM

Here's the draft i found from 1947 in german only. Hope it helps.



#9 pfaff260

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 08:12 PM

Oops. This i forgot:

http://movsd.com/Bes...php?topic=434.0


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#10 catechumen

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 02:58 AM

Thankyou very much everyone, lots to go on. Looks like I'll be spending some quality time with Google Translate in the near future!



#11 Terri

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 11:29 AM

For the 1930's to the forties I'd say anywhere between 18-20 inches at the hem, as it is a style decision. I like to keep in mind the hip size and shoe size when making those decisions.

#12 catechumen

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 07:28 PM

You could always just draft them from a contemporary source.

 

http://www.cutterand...?showtopic=2083   look down to pg 406 - 407.

 

After all how different is 1938 from 1940?  

 

Ooops.

 

I sat down with this draft last night and I'm not sure I understand how the ease works - the front has none, which I assume means it's the pleats that cover it, but then there's a whole 2" added to the seat line on the undersides. Do I just have modern expectations of trouser fit?



#13 Terri

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 09:02 PM

There are seam allowances that take up some of that ease.
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#14 catechumen

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 10:39 PM

Yes, I figured that out about five minutes after I posted - typical. But it's definitely not all seam allowances!


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#15 greger

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 01:08 PM

You need room to move. Skin tight doesn't work very well. This extra slack is called ease. Some of today's cloth has stretchable material woven in so they can be a little closer. If you want closer fitting subtract it from the back. 



#16 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 11:19 AM

Just to clarify, the Bridgland era MTOC is late 20's, Thicket era MTOC is mid thirties and Whife era MTOC is post war. Whife(1947) gives 20" as the standard. Poulin (1952) gives the following recommendation on bottom and knee widths

Bottom:
Smaller man-19"
Average-20"
Larger-21"

Knee:
Smaller- 21"
Average-22"
Larger-23"

Though all these are to taste.

Edited by J. Maclochlainn, 02 June 2017 - 11:21 AM.

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Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#17 catechumen

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 01:17 AM

You need room to move. Skin tight doesn't work very well. This extra slack is called ease. Some of today's cloth has stretchable material woven in so they can be a little closer. If you want closer fitting subtract it from the back. 

Yes, I'm aware of what ease is, I just wasn't expecting to find none in the front and half a mile in the back - which is why I ask if it's just that older drafts don't fit the same way modern ones do. I'm used to working from Winifred Aldrich, which has ease meticulously divided up and added to every pattern piece (and spelled out in the instructions). 



#18 posaune

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 04:51 AM

Mostly there is more ease in the back because it is used there for moving. (In Rundschau you do 1/4 Hip-1 cm in frotn and
+ 1 cm in back (in ladies draft))
And yes, the trouser were more roomy in this aera.
lg
posaune
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