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T&C 47-50 collection


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#1 Steelmillal

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 07:51 AM

Shouldn't post for wanting eyes, but best to as someone may be in position to preserve. AL

https://m.ebay.com/i...2d5ad%7Ciid%3A6

#2 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 08:02 AM

Succesful business owners are to stingy and students to poor to buy that. Besides the cutting systems are old and rubbish.


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#3 Steelmillal

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 08:25 AM

Just to be clear to young people reaching out to me, I don't own these and am not connected with them. Just saw and shared for historical value.

Buy an aggressive balanced 401k fund if you've a grand burning a hole in your wallet!

#4 greger

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 03:03 PM

These might be a better investment than a 401k fund. 

 

"Besides the cutting systems are old and rubbish." 

Depends on how one thinks about the finished garments from an artist view point and training to fit and the freedom to adapt. What one sees in ones mind and how one goes about making it isn't always following directions exactly, if ever closely. How many tailors develope their own system which they can adapt quickly for whatever the customer asks for? Rock of eye has worked very well for some tailors and not well for others. These journals were showing what was becoming popular, and today, history. They also showed many cutting details for certain futures. For some people exact directions takes away the creative thinking that is required for them to make the changing world of clothes. When reading what customers say about the various tailors they go to from different countries some explain gains and losses from each theory. If the Germans are so great, how can there be losses? As for all the others? Pride in ones country only goes so far. To much pride shows a lack of knowledge from the over prideful. 50 years ago and further back there were thousands of tailors, and they each have their own opinion, though, usually regional, and different abilities. Art has boundaries. Regional art has boundaries. But, no matter where it comes from it is still art. Some young tailors were sent to a number of regions to expand their understanding of the art of tailoring, to prevent narrow mindedness, which helps adapt to the changing art of clothing, anyway. Customers often create the rules of art and come to the tailor to make it. The purpose of the journals was/is to past this information along to other tailors. This one customer of both English and German tailors said that English tailors do better with lateral balance than Germans. Are the German exacting pattern systems blocking the German tailors from understanding lateral balance? The same customer points out some German advantages. Anyway, group of people own the subject. If you live in Texas make what Texans want to wear. 


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#5 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 11:53 PM

Until 1970 the German system also was not much better than the English one. But thanks God those improved German systems wisely never got published in this forum here.

I am now into the Mitchel System to investigate the English style, I will overlay it with the German system and will know exactly what ease and lengths they used. Unfortunately the Germans could make a nice fitting pattern but where lacking the style. Germans simply had no taste in their Garment making. LOL

 

The Mitchel system looks like a very fine System to steal from. It is complete and complex and has grown along decades of years and was used by thousands of tailors. What a great find I made. I am already scanning it and produce me a mint copy with sites white like snow, crisp and clean so nicely!


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#6 greger

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 05:10 AM

Today's English system is better than their 1980s system. It is interesting that some still use some of the methods from the 1800s. They understand how to use certain methods efficiently. America, being a conglomerate of many nations, has had several methods at the same time. Some tailors think if you are using someone else's system that you are a fraud (and some of them will get very angry at you if they think you are using someone else's system. So, you have to invent your own.). Since ease is variable I believe the English add the body measurement, ease measurement and seam allowance and are taught where and how to place them. The beginners pattern do not have all of those details. The business man has to be able to quickly adapt his methods to create any type of garments the customer wants. Time is money, or you are losing both. Clothes are about life. Not a bunch of numbers rules of the past. Clothes are about now. This is where pinned fittings come in. To see if the tailor understands the customer's desired design, and the garment quickly brought to that design. The customer may find it looks terrible on him, and a new design is created on the spot on the customer, by customer and tailor. Can't depend on books and journals here, but they are sometimes helpful. 



#7 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 04:38 AM

http://www.ebay.com/...D-/292250218482?

 

Now somebody, who hangs full, could buy it. Good price. Unique collection. Not worth the drafts but the time of tailoring in the US. If I had money, I would buy it just to page through the sites and get the feeling of the past. 


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#8 greger

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 07:53 AM

It seems over priced. Maybe not. 



#9 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 09:26 AM

Where are my birthday presents? LOL


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#10 greger

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 04:27 AM

Well, you can't blame Santa. 

 

If he put them for $500, after the $600 price, someone might buy them. What is the real value? $1 each? $7 each? He is asking way too much for them, I think. People don't pay to put stuff on eBay, so they can keep asking unreasonable prices for ever. If they had to pay for the space prices would be more reasonable. I think ebay is jipping people. It is not a real market place of supply and demand. Artificial prices creates faulty business. Most auctions start out close to a fair price, and if they soar that's fine. But if they start out with a phoney price....


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#11 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 11:46 AM

I believe you greger, I never bought stuff from ebay for many years, I always recognised it as a place to sell.


I wonder if you have to spend your whole life understanding facts that were perfectly obvious all the time.

 

Doris Lessing - Shikasta


#12 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 12:24 PM

5$ per magazine is fine. It should sell to some idealist or lover of tailoring. It is a rare collection you might never find anymore. A museum should buy them.

 

I bought this one a couple of years ago

 

http://www.ebay.com/...5.c100009.m1982

 

It is actually a useless book and it was expensive, in very good condition, but it shows the time of tailoring and I like to hold it in my hands. I can smell the tailoring!

 

I also bought "the modern tailor and outfitter", 3 Vol. books in mint condition. They are also useless but nice to have for the reminiscence.

 


Edited by Der Zuschneider, 16 September 2017 - 12:36 PM.

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#13 greger

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 04:15 PM

Some of what I like about old books is what is between the lines. Or, the gist. What the clothes are about. And the pattern system is only one way of going about making the patterns. They are very aware that tailors have their own personal systems and they are very careful not to step on anyone's toes. The books are for the inexperienced and showing the latest fads.

 

One time I should have drawn the coat pattern without the construction lines (some tailors call it the rock of eye) but, I grabbed a printed system that was handy and drove 90 to 100 miles to ask an old tailor how to change it to fit a certain body shape. He immediately saw that it wasn't my system and he was so angry that he never heard my question. Since tailoring is an art and somebody else's system is their art, and not yours, and it can't be your art with someone else's system, and your stealing their art. He was an old man thunderously yelling at me. I've known since a small boy that some tailors are that way. But, I figured he wasn't one of them. Boy, was I even wrong. Never did get the fitting adjustment directions. If I had taken a minute to draw the pattern shape he would have answered my question. So all of those pattern systems you see in books and journals you are never supposed to use. They are only for instruction. Each tailor is to invent his own system. Using someone else's system is like painting by number- which is amateurish. Professionals never paint by number. They paint their own paintings as tailors create their own systems. That was Hostek that got so very angry at me in Seattle. When I was a small boy grandad called him (Hostek), "An up coming tailor". Now I am heading into old age (according to young folks). 


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#14 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 01:04 AM

That is the reason, why I collect those tailoring books. In order to find here and there ideas which I can build into my own system. My system consists out of three other German systems mixed together. I can lay different Systems on top of each other to find advantages. The old cutting books are nice but I am not using those old systems. It is just for looking and smelling.


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#15 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 11:40 AM

How * up is the tailoring, the hype is over, tailoring is done. 5 years ago those magazine would have been sold like hot chocolate. LOL

Sator has messed up the tailoring with his collection greed. Since he is silent  the tailoring is past and everything is cheap to buy.


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#16 Jeffrey

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 11:10 PM

How * up is the tailoring, the hype is over, tailoring is done. 5 years ago those magazine would have been sold like hot chocolate. LOL

Sator has messed up the tailoring with his collection greed. Since he is silent  the tailoring is past and everything is cheap to buy.

 

WOW!!!



#17 Steelmillal

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 07:25 AM

Seems someone bought them for the price of a pint each...Not bad. Hopefully a museum did pick them up.
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