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#19 posaune

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 07:27 PM

Take a look at your folds. Most of them start at the sideseam. Let's start with the first right side view. We look from side seam: The back: under the armhole up to shoulder. A big wad at CB at waist level and the fabic is pulled to the behind and it sits there. Sideseam is pulled too.

The front: The armhole pulls up as in back,  a big fold from hip to the bust point and same smaller folds going up to belly start and end of the belly mountain. The CF button stand stands away from body and the hem is pulled up.

your conclusion is right the balance is lacking.

Why? Because you push your belly in front (need more length and width) and at the same time your behind out (needs less length but more width),it is your posture - your hips are doing this.

Taking out 3 cm in back now cleaned the CB wad in back - but the armhole got worser. The fabric is released from the bum. The CB falls straight now as it should. Side seam runs better.

So you are on the right track. You have shortened the length and move the width up.

 

Everybody is doing alterations as they are used too.

I would start with pinning out a wedge with 1.5 at CB to nothing at armhole at the back and open he front with 1.5 cm at first. (You cut across and set in a piece of fabric but the upper part is pinned for further alteration). Now you make pics - you pin again let out or take in till it is nearly good.

 

The second alteration concerns your belly posture, when you look from the side the belly is before the bust - maybe 1.5 cm - which means you must add fabric at waist level and get more length for it. As your bust needs more fabric too - you can try to do a larger bust circ. I guess this maybe a case where to do or not to do. This means put about 1-2 cm more in the Bb - and you will get more front waist-hip too. And do add 1 cm at hip at each sideseam. You can pin that out later if it is too much.

lg

posaune

ah forgot : snip little snips at the buttom of the armholes till the stress is release to get the right Rh


Edited by posaune, 22 September 2019 - 07:38 PM.

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#20 Newbie

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 09:27 PM

Thanks for the great advice.

 

So I changed the balance as posaune described, and I think it is alright now. I eventually added 2,25 in the front and took out 1,5 at the back... i will probably distribute the 3,75 more evenly in the finished draft. If I try to pin out the new cf the shirt is getting a little tight around the chest area since I took away about 1,5 cm in that area by drawing the new cf line. Should I just add 1-2 cm in the Bb? does that mean I have to make another muslin?

 

It is hard to tell from the pictures, but it seems to me that the left shoulder is cut too steep, and there are a lot of creases in the back. I haven't yet tapered the side seam and I think I have to make back darts as well, so maybe this will change after those alterations.

 

balance4.jpg

 

balance2.jpg

 

balance1.jpg

 

balance3.jpg



#21 posaune

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Posted 24 September 2019 - 02:42 AM

The back: I assume that you have a sway back  (I can't see this correct) and/or protruding shoulder blades?

The side seams are straight and the fabric is not sitting on the behind - could need a bit more width. But this can come from the front.

yes add a bit at the Bb. Do it like before with the wedge cut vertical straight down ( 2 cm besides the neckhole) sew a strip of fabric in (beware of the grain) I would add first 1 cm. Snip the front neck hole like you did with the armhole - it sits tight and high.

after this we will see what we can do for those bust folds in front and make the back more clean.

lg

posaune


Edited by posaune, 24 September 2019 - 02:44 AM.

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#22 Ocsecnarfskij

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Posted 24 September 2019 - 09:49 PM

Hello,

I cannot see the pattern but as far as I can see from pictures,take in at front shoulder and drop the scye the same amount.Back balance still needs adjustments.

#23 Newbie

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 05:34 AM

So since there was width lacking in the chest and  I had to draft the shoulders significantly wider than the original draft suggested, I remeasured the chest and made a new muslin. I think I made the fatal error of not checking if the tape slipped under the blades the first time, so while my original measurement was 96cm the new one is about 101cm. That would mean nearly 2cm more at the Bb and Rb each which seamed excessive and I changed it to about 1 cm each.

 

The result isn't as good as I wished for, I think I have to change the balance even further, I just pinned another 1 cm at the back for illustration, and altough there is no darts or waist supression yet it seems to be rather loose fitting anyhow. The shoulders look a bit nicer, the crease on the left side can be pinned out by hollowing the frond edge. The diagonal creased from the chest to the side seam seem to be more prominent now.

 

neu4.jpg

 

neu2.jpg

 

neu3.jpg

 

neu1.jpg

 

The leaning on the left on the last picture seems to be exaggerated  and doesn't depict his actual stance.



#24 peterle

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 05:34 PM

When You pin the back balance, you should pin across the whole back from edge to edge, otherwise you get wrong results. I also think your armholes get too high when you pin the back balance, better you influence the balance by shifting the front up in the sides seams.

 

Please take a string with a weight attached and let it hang from the most prominent point of the shoulderblades of your client. Tell us, wether the string hangs straight, just touching the butt of your client, or  the string is pushed out of the vertical by the butt. The second case would need a different approach than shortening the back balance to get the hem away from the butt.


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#25 Newbie

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 06:56 PM

When You pin the back balance, you should pin across the whole back from edge to edge, otherwise you get wrong results. I also think your armholes get too high when you pin the back balance, better you influence the balance by shifting the front up in the sides seams.

 

Please take a string with a weight attached and let it hang from the most prominent point of the shoulderblades of your client. Tell us, wether the string hangs straight, just touching the butt of your client, or  the string is pushed out of the vertical by the butt. The second case would need a different approach than shortening the back balance to get the hem away from the butt.

 

The pinning of the back was just a quick illustration of how much more front balance will be needed. I plan on doing the alteration the way posaune described. Concerning the posture I'm pretty sure he has a swayback therefore his blades protrude beyond the butt. I think if I add  about 1 cm to the front the balance issue should be done for, but that will leave me with a torso, that is way too large and I'm not sure if taking it in from the side will solve the issue.


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#26 posaune

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Posted 26 September 2019 - 01:03 AM

How Peterle and Ocsecnarfskij described the way to alter it  -  I'm sure it would gvie you the same result - everybody has its method. (I  -par example - do not like to mess around with armholes).I think too the angle of the shoulders maybe not right. And I think the butt is before the blades.

 

It would help you to understand what is going on in your draft if you draw in the bust line in front and back. You will see if the line is horizontal or it it goes up or down. And the armvortrittsline is important too. Its a construction line.

By the way you need only width in front. In back you have too much now in the shoulder and armhole area. How big is your seam allowance?

posaune


Edited by posaune, 26 September 2019 - 01:05 AM.


#27 Newbie

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Posted 26 September 2019 - 04:22 AM

So here is the original draft with the least amount of ease. Concerning the seam allowance I marked the sewing lines with a pencil and just cut around them rather freely since this is a trial shirt only. 

 

Grundschnitt.jpg

 

Since I made a false mearument at the chest ( at first I measured only 95) I tried to alter the draft accordingly... meaning altering the Bb, Rb, Ad, At and therefore also the Armvortrittslinie. 

I was wondering if that was the best idea, altough I think the chest is looking more promising after all. Concerning the back: since it seems to be quite large, as posaune pointed out, is it just possible to make the Rb measurement smaller, which would mean some changes to the armhole as well?



#28 peterle

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Posted 26 September 2019 - 08:38 PM

You were right to alter the backwidth, chestwidth and armholewidth proportionally. But to keep the ease in the whole chest girth you should add to the chestwidth, what you remove from the backwidth. Think of "shifting the armhole to the right position". It is possible that your client has a narrower back than the proportional pattern is meant for.

 

BTW: my Mueller book "Der Zuschnitt in der Herrenschneiderei" says, for taking the chest measure: "Put the tape measure in the front across the widest part of the chest and guide it under the arms and across the back horizontally. When there is a round back or stronger shoulder blades, don´t guide the tape upwards and over it. They have to be dealt with  by adding to the calculated back width, when preparing the paper pattern and with ironwork." The reason is, when you include these irregularities in your measurments, the proportionally calculated chestwidth and armhole also get bigger, although the additional width is only needed in the back.


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#29 Newbie

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Posted 26 September 2019 - 10:21 PM

You were right to alter the backwidth, chestwidth and armholewidth proportionally. But to keep the ease in the whole chest girth you should add to the chestwidth, what you remove from the backwidth. Think of "shifting the armhole to the right position". It is possible that your client has a narrower back than the proportional pattern is meant for.

 

BTW: my Mueller book "Der Zuschnitt in der Herrenschneiderei" says, for taking the chest measure: "Put the tape measure in the front across the widest part of the chest and guide it under the arms and across the back horizontally. When there is a round back or stronger shoulder blades, don´t guide the tape upwards and over it. They have to be dealt with  by adding to the calculated back width, when preparing the paper pattern and with ironwork." The reason is, when you include these irregularities in your measurments, the proportionally calculated chestwidth and armhole also get bigger, although the additional width is only needed in the back.

 

Thanks, peterle. So 101 cm chest measurement is wrong as well. It seems to me though that the front width seems fine now, but the overall width looks too large. so since I don't really know how to go forward: should I just take away from the back width? should I take away in the chest in general? The original measurement of 95cm seems to make the front chestwidth too small though.


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#30 peterle

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 01:32 AM

You should recalculate the chest- armhole- and backwidth with the right measurement, so you can be sure that you have a proportional pattern and look how the muslin fits. Sorry, no shorts.


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#31 posaune

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 08:45 PM

I would work in this way:

measure the Bb of your muslin and subtract the ease. This gives you the Bb you need. Measure the Rb. Now what about the Ad?: you can measure this too but if you think it is sufficient take the old calculated measurement. And yes, your are maybe outside the proportional draft.

As your customer's posture is not average you can't relay on the formulas.

I always measure all what I need and then compare it with the calculated measures. I see where the measures go astray, I look why and maybe do them again.

What I saw in your measures is: the Rh is small. As the shoulders have maybe an angle about 24° I think it should be 1-1.5 more.

lg

heidi


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#32 greger

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 03:14 PM

The front's need to be lengthen at the shoulders. It will also place the armholes in a better place. The blade measurement is wrong. Strap and blade measurements work together. What I'm saying is the armholes are in the wrong location. It is to tight in the chest. The strap measure will bring the armholes down to the right height and the blade measurement will add more room to the chest. Both measures will add lengths, because both are to short on your body for the pattern you using.

Edited by greger, 30 September 2019 - 03:25 PM.


#33 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 08:59 PM

Could you explain what the strap measurement is please greger?


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#34 Newbie

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 01:43 AM


 
Thanks for all your great advice. I have to admit though that since I am rather new to this, I don't quite understand everyting.
 
So first I remeasured the chest and adjusted the draft accordingly (it's now 98cm). I think it looks better now, but still feels relativly loose in the back and at the side. I gave 1,5cm more to the front and when I checked, the balance seemed right. I am now of the impression that everytime I make a picture he overcorrects his posture, therefore pushing the chest forward. It is rather frustrating to look at the pictures and what appeared to be right in person now looks off again. Balance aside, I think the shoulders look right, biggest problem to me is the overall loosness. In total there are about 11cm of ease around the chest, is this reasonable, it should be a rather fitted shirt according to the draft. 
 
draft98-2.jpg
 
Draft98-1.jpg
 
draft98-4.jpg
 
draft98-3.jpg
 
 
@posaune: So if I measure the Bb and substract the ease I get the 18,6 cm from the draft, same for the Rb. Do you mean to measure from the body itself? I have to admit that I'm not sure I know where and how to measure exactly. 
 
@greger: the armhole does look a little bit better now since I added 1,5cm to the chest area. By altering the balance the way posaune described I don't alter the armholecirc though. Should I therefore just insert some lenght over the whole front like Wilson is showing in his book? That whould of course alter the armhole circ- so should I take away the same amount in the back or does the armhole should be larger anyhow? 
I am afraid I too don't know what the strap measurement is...

Edited by Newbie, 01 October 2019 - 02:43 AM.


#35 posaune

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 05:46 AM

Yes, measure the body itself!! In the back. The Bb from the shirt. The back could be 1 cm smaller, I guess. I can give you the directions of measureing if you want but it need experience  - this is why you do a muslin. To measure Rb and Rh mostly is enough when your biceps is in the "normal" range. If you have a balance problem you measure the waist length too.

Now do you see how good are the lines you have drafted in?

You compare it with the lines you get from the door. Take a ruler - follow the lines of the door - and look how your lines run! You will see that the front is going up. And the CF is slanted. So the balance has to be corrected. I think I see a scoliose there the right hip is shoven out to the right  and the left is following in.  So the fabric is caught at the right side. You must open in the right side seam and pin it a bit smaller same amount at the left side. If the right shoulder is hanging I can't say with certainity.

That the person takes another posture while fitted is quite normal. That is why tailors chat so much during the process to help the customer to relax. 11 cm ease: you mean half pattern or the full? Half pattern would be  too much.

But nevertheless you are on the right path.

lg

posaune



#36 Dunc

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 07:27 PM

11cm of ease in the full chest is really quite snug. You need to be able to move in it!






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