Jump to content


Photo

Trouser Making Book & DVD Coming From David Page Coffin


  • Please log in to reply
46 replies to this topic

#19 amateursarto

amateursarto

    Pro

  • Senior Apprentice
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 565 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:STL, MO, USA
  • Interests:shirt and tie making, tailoring

Posted 02 September 2009 - 03:38 PM

I agree with Sator, DPC's book is a must have and I venture to say that it will do for me what your shirtmaking book and vhs tape (i was an early adopter, LOL) did for my shirtmaking! thanks, again David for helping the amateurs out here! btw, on an unrelated note, have you been able to purchase tie silk form Talbott?

amateursarto
AMATEURSARTO

#20 dpcoffin

dpcoffin

    Apprentice

  • Professional
  • PipPip
  • 312 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brookings, Oregon, USA

Posted 03 September 2009 - 03:03 AM

You're very welcome; delighted you like it and look forward to hearing how you get on with your projects. As to Talbots, I've heard that they can sometimes be willing to sell by mail or phone (which they didn't used to do except for scraps for quilters and the like), but haven't ordered myself. If you do, I'd be pleased to hear how it went. Thanks again for your comments!

dpc



#21 Padme

Padme

    Apprentice

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 163 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:United States

Posted 07 September 2009 - 03:10 AM

*Trouser cutting and fitting*

I've got David's book. I preordered it and have read it several times. I've made ladies pants for me, but I don't have that many fitting issues. I'd like to try a pair for my husband, but he's 6 foot 1, has gotten larger in the middle. I find that I'm afraid to begin. I will be using a paper pattern and altering it. Do I go with the waist, the hips, what about thigh issues?

#22 Sator

Sator

    Administrator

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,998 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney, Australia

Posted 07 September 2009 - 04:34 PM

Dear Padme. I've moved your question to this thread.

I think you'll find that men's trousers are easier to make because they aren't as fitted, and because men are less curvaceous. To understand how a trouser draft "works" I suggest studying this thread:

http://www.cutterand...p?showtopic=375

It tells you how the balance changes on the draft for a more corpulent figure. The most important measurement is the seat measure.

If in doubt run a muslin, leaving inlays and subject it to a fitting session:

http://www.cutterand...p?showtopic=403

#23 Sator

Sator

    Administrator

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,998 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney, Australia

Posted 14 September 2009 - 11:38 AM

BTW David, just one trivial point to nitpick on - the use of the term "cut on". Traditionally, if a structure such as a waistband is formed in one piece without a seam there, it is described as being "grown on". If it is "cut on" it means that it is cut separately and then stitched on, so there will be a seam there. An alternative expression less commonly used is "sewn on".

#24 dpcoffin

dpcoffin

    Apprentice

  • Professional
  • PipPip
  • 312 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brookings, Oregon, USA

Posted 15 September 2009 - 05:05 AM

BTW David, just one trivial point to nitpick on - the use of the term "cut on". Traditionally, if a structure such as a waistband is formed in one piece without a seam there, it is described as being "grown on". If it is "cut on" it means that it is cut separately and then stitched on, so there will be a seam there. An alternative expression less commonly used is "sewn on".



Wow! If "cut-on" means the same thing as "sewn-on" to a tailor, that's a marvelous example, to me, of completely counter-intuitive insider lingo, and no doubt a host of other "how usage trumps logic in language" principles I can only guess at!

I chose "cut-on" as a non-jargon-speaker attempting to write for other non-jargon speakers.

My thinking was simple: A "sewn-on" thing obviously means (to me): It got there by being sewn there. A "cut-on" thing, then, would imply, I figured, that: It got there by being cut there. There's no other similarly obvious short phrase already in common use amongst home sewers meaning "Cut your pattern piece so the facing or whatever doesn't have to be cut separate and sewn on," so I assembled "cut-on" for them.

"Grown-on" is a meaningless and confusing term for a non-tailor; just try it on a workshop full of experienced home sewers: you "grew" some extra fabric there? Huh?

I didn't know that "Grown-on" was actually a wide-spread working term; I'd heard Stanley H. say "growed-on," and took it to be a charming bit of possibly regional tailor-ese, needing immediate explanation to any non-tailoring audience. I didn't think it important to encourage non-tailors to incorporate the phrase into their vocabulary. Even spruced up into the more grammatically satisfying "grown-on," I still don't.

I don't mind if tailors convert my phrase "cut-on" to "grown-on" whenever they read it. But I admit to being disturbed and sorry to hear that tailors already use "cut-on" to mean "sewn-on." Where else do they use "cut" to mean "sew"?

Yet another good reason for my stress that I write for amateurs! If tailors choose to read me, I guess they'll have to work a bit harder:)
dpc

#25 Sator

Sator

    Administrator

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,998 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney, Australia

Posted 15 September 2009 - 09:59 AM

I've gotten used to these terms myself and tend to say "cut on" vs "grown on" myself. However, I do take your point. I would suggest that perhaps "sewn on" vs "one piece" might be a good, intuitive alternative. There are plenty of professionals reading your books as well!

#26 Sanguis Mortuum

Sanguis Mortuum

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 81 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 September 2009 - 01:41 AM

I'm wondering what the difference is between this version on Amazon US and this version on Amazon UK? It looks like the latter does not come with the DVD? If so, is this the only difference?

#27 dpcoffin

dpcoffin

    Apprentice

  • Professional
  • PipPip
  • 312 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brookings, Oregon, USA

Posted 19 September 2009 - 04:52 AM

I'm wondering what the difference is between this version on Amazon US and this version on Amazon UK? It looks like the latter does not come with the DVD? If so, is this the only difference?



You're right; for some reason that I've never understood, the UK distributor of the book insisted that there be no DVD, so the Amazon UK version has no disk and the text has been altered to delete any reference to the disk. Those are the only differences.

Since it's so easy nowadays for online shoppers anywhere in the world to discover that there are two versions, the whole deal seems obviously an invitation for confusion and annoyance and nothing else, but that's what they wanted and that's what they got.

I've been told that there's a provision somewhere for buyers of the diskless version to buy the disk separately, but I've never been told where that's to be found.

So, I'd say, if you can, buy the one with the disk, if nec. from a non-UK source, even if it means paying a bit more for shipping. Or to buy the disk separately, you could perhaps contact the publisher? sales@creativepub.com

Sorry about the confusion!
dpc

#28 J. Maclochlainn

J. Maclochlainn

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,143 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 September 2009 - 06:43 AM

Mr. Coffin,

If your publisher is like mine, your Editor should be able to tell you this source.
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#29 dpcoffin

dpcoffin

    Apprentice

  • Professional
  • PipPip
  • 312 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brookings, Oregon, USA

Posted 20 September 2009 - 03:40 AM

Mr. Coffin,

If your publisher is like mine, your Editor should be able to tell you this source.


My publisher is pretty much like most others: she's been "let go".

I'll fire off my "what's up with that separate DVD?" email to them yet again…

Actually, they've been quite good to work with in most respects; so far I'm glad to be with them.
(Creative Publications International)

#30 dpcoffin

dpcoffin

    Apprentice

  • Professional
  • PipPip
  • 312 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brookings, Oregon, USA

Posted 20 September 2009 - 03:53 AM

I've gotten used to these terms myself and tend to say "cut on" vs "grown on" myself. However, I do take your point. I would suggest that perhaps "sewn on" vs "one piece" might be a good, intuitive alternative. There are plenty of professionals reading your books as well!



Hmmm… Still mulling this over, altho there's no update in the works yet for this brand-new book. One-piece seems problematic: Would one say the facing or the pant-front it was attached to was the "one-piece" thing? A one-piece band seems to already mean one without a center-back seam, or perhaps one with a fold instead of a seam at the top…

#31 jefferyd

jefferyd

    Guru

  • Super Pro
  • PipPip
  • 281 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 September 2009 - 04:34 AM

I gave up waiting for the book to come to my local shop and finally ordered it online, and it came today. I'm thinking I'm gong to have to clear my afternoon now......

The first chapter alone is worth the price of the book, and I love the way the rest is illustrated and photographed. I definitely agree that it's one for everyone's library!

#32 Nicolaus

Nicolaus

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 45 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Carolina

Posted 23 September 2009 - 05:07 AM

I gave up waiting for the book to come to my local shop and finally ordered it online, and it came today. I'm thinking I'm gong to have to clear my afternoon now......

The first chapter alone is worth the price of the book, and I love the way the rest is illustrated and photographed. I definitely agree that it's one for everyone's library!


What a coincidence! My copy arrived today as well. :)

#33 le.gentleman

le.gentleman

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 56 posts

Posted 25 September 2009 - 11:29 AM

My copy just arrived a week. But just now I found the time to read the first few pages - it seems to be very promising.

David, on page 9 you mention that you ordered a custom pants pattern draft by mail from Stanley Hostek. Is this service still available? I'd be very interested in giving it a try smile.gif. If you don't want to disclose information publicly you can also send me a PM of course.

Thanks in advance, le.gentleman

#34 dpcoffin

dpcoffin

    Apprentice

  • Professional
  • PipPip
  • 312 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brookings, Oregon, USA

Posted 26 September 2009 - 08:00 AM

->…a custom pants pattern draft by mail from Stanley Hostek. Is this service still available?



Stan's well into his 90s by now, so I doubt he's still doing this. I'd be happy to ask (or you could contact him directly, address below), but I feel I should describe my results in a bit more detail first:

The form he used had a half-dozen or so measurements to fill in, most quite simple to take, but several that called on me to have opinions about the fit, feel, and style of trousers that I didn't have at that point in my young life, such as where exactly did I want my waist to be, what kind of band I wanted, how wide the legs should be at various points, and how close should the crotch fit. So I just guessed, and/or made something up. It also included three sketches of male figures from the side indicating possible postures; I picked the slouchy one.

When the pattern arrived, I was initially baffled by it because it included no detail pieces for fly or pockets, no directions of any kind and no info about seam allowances. I had his book, but that was sketchy on these things, or seemed so to my completely beginner eyes. I wrote him and learned that 1/4-in. allowances were built in, but when I made up a test muslin, the waist was way too high (my fault; I'd decided I'd go for a high waist, having only seen this in photos, and my guess at how high was a bit extreme), and they sagged quite a bit in back.

Stan wrote me how I might adjust the seat angle to fix the latter, and I just chopped off the extra waist length, and so I muddled through to something I could use, but I came away realizing that a draft like this, initiated by an ignoramus never seen by the drafter (who would no doubt have some experience in dealing with, and recognizing, postural issues), was very unlikely to be a hit right out of the box, and didn't at all eliminate the need for tests and adjustments, which I felt quite inadequate about doing at the time, and which I'd been hoping to avoid in the first place. I'd basically imagined that my filling in a form would somehow equal visiting a tailor who would just "know" what sort of trousers I should have; it didn't and couldn't have, since all the fine tuning after the draft is where the magic is, and that requires somebody who actually knows something, and can see what's happening.

I think the best and simplest way for a beginner to get a good starting point is to copy some existing garment that comes close to fitting comfortably and hanging adequately (see my blog for an easy method), and if nothing like that can be found, visiting an expert fitter/drafter in person is really unavoidable. A pair worth copying doesn't have to be perfect, but it will be a very useful point of comparison to have on hand once you start tweaking the pattern you make from it.

HTH!

dpc

Stanley Hostek
4003 West Armour
Seattle, WA 98199
Tel: 206-283-6512

#35 jcsprowls

jcsprowls

    Pro

  • Super Pro
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,134 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Roanoke, Virginia

Posted 26 September 2009 - 03:13 PM

It sounds like what you received was a draft based on your personal measurements. Drafts (and, basic blocks for that matter) don't contain detail pieces (e.g. facings, linings, pockets, etc).

After the draft is proven, you then make a block out of it. You do that by sewing up a sample in the intended fabric. It's the same procedure as if you used a commercial pattern.

Once you have a personalized block established, you then make the style and all its component parts (e.g. facings, linings, etc.)
___________

Dir, Product Development

web: http://www.studio9apparel.com
portfolio: http://www.behance.net/studio9apparel

#36 dpcoffin

dpcoffin

    Apprentice

  • Professional
  • PipPip
  • 312 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brookings, Oregon, USA

Posted 27 September 2009 - 06:50 AM

It sounds like what you received was a draft based on your personal measurements. Drafts (and, basic blocks for that matter) don't contain detail pieces (e.g. facings, linings, pockets, etc).

After the draft is proven, you then make a block out of it. You do that by sewing up a sample in the intended fabric. It's the same procedure as if you used a commercial pattern.

Once you have a personalized block established, you then make the style and all its component parts (e.g. facings, linings, etc.)



Exactly; I had better, quicker results starting with a traced copy of some pants I liked (which gave me a "block," I guess…?) than from Stan's draft.

I think all I'm missing here are exact definitions of the terms you use, jc, such as "prove" [a draft] and "block". How do you prove a draft? And is a block a sample garment, like a muslin, or the pattern you cut it from?

In my book I use the same ideas, I think, but I call it a Master Pattern, which I'd also call a sloper; i.e., a pattern for a pant that fits and with dimensions that I like, but with no pockets or other details built in.

dpc




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users