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Huntsman double breasted.


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#1 carpu65

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Posted 27 April 2010 - 11:52 PM

Huntsman is famous for his single breasted one button coat.
But how is his double breasted?
I dont' have never see,someone have description
or some pictures?

#2 Sator

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 08:09 AM

If you do research on the internet, you find all sorts of strange mythology. I imagine that the one about Huntsman making "the best double breasted coat on the Row" is one of these. It probably started when some client of theirs felt so pleased with the reefer than that they had cut him, that he decided that to tell the whole world that nobody on Savile Row makes one better.

However, from the cutter's point of view, there isn't that much difference between making a double breasted reefer and a single breasted lounge coat. If you start with drafting a lounge coat, it's easy to turn it into a double breasted reefer. That is, to cut a good reefer you first need to be able to draft a good lounge pattern in general.

Now, admittedly there are things that can be changed according to taste and fashion if you turn a lounge pattern into a reefer: the lapel width, lapel length, how much belly to put on the lapels, and the amount of overlap (space between buttons). However, these are very basic things to alter and should be adjusted according to the proportions of each individual client. Any decent apprentice should be able to do this.

The most important thing is how well fitting the lounge coat pattern was in the first place before you turned it into a double breasted coat. That is where the master tailor's skill come into play. Without this, all the things that the apprentice changes according to taste and fashion come to nothing.

When the satisfied client says "X makes the best double breasted jacket in the world", all they are saying is that they think their tailor is the best in the world. Similarly, if tailor X hears a new client say they have come to them because they heard that X makes "the best double breasted jacket on the Row/in Italy/in the world etc", the natural reaction would be to smile and be flattered, but really the tailor knows in their heart that there is no really special secret that goes into cutting a double breasted coat. The real secret, the real skill is in cutting and fitting overall. That is where the magic lies.

The secret to finding the right tailor to make a good double breasted is really that of finding a tailor who can cut and fit well in general. I would not recommend going to one tailor for a single breasted lounge coat and another one for a double breasted reefer.

#3 carpu65

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 02:12 AM

But and the silhouette?
At my eyes the first double breasted is better more pleasent and well cut then the second:

Posted Image

Posted Image
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#4 Sator

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 03:20 AM

The internet has given rise to some unusual terminology and "silhouette" seems to be one of these. The most important determinant of the silhouette would be the client's shape!

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The cutter can only change the cut - taglio - of the coat.

In this picture, it's hard to tell if the coat really is more loosely cut because the wearer has his hand in his pockets:

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However, you can say a few more things about the following Huntsman:

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It is nothing that unusual at all. Any good tailor can do that. There is moderately strong waist suppression, the lapels are medium width with only a modest amount of belly. The model is proportionate and the amount of overlap at front is moderate and in keeping with his physique. There is modest shoulder padding, the shoulder lightly padded, and little touch of roping in the sleeve cap. You can tell they have used moderate structure in the chest to give it a bit of fullness.

The one big fault is that the stripes fail to run parallel to the lapel edge (see red arrow in third picture). Not good, and it should not have been allowed out of the store like that. However, they seemed to have managed to pattern match at the shoulders (which is not necessary).

#5 Kevin Koch

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 03:37 AM

Posted Image


Hard to find, but does anyone have shots/pics showing a corpulent vest (waistcoat), IOW without a coat on?
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#6 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 07:27 AM

Is it just me or does the stripe below the BP disappear into the FD?
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#7 carpu65

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 07:28 AM

In this picture, it's hard to tell if the coat really is more loosely cut because the wearer has his hand in his pockets:

The client shape seems less or more the same.
But the shape of the suit?
The second would be better on the client that the first?

Posted Image

Posted Image

#8 carpu65

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 08:08 AM

It is nothing that unusual at all. Any good tailor can do that.The one big fault is that the stripes fail to run parallel to the lapel edge (see red arrow in third picture). Not good, and it should not have been allowed out of the store like that. However, they seemed to have managed to pattern match at the shoulders (which is not necessary).


And this delivers we to another question.
Huntsman is one of more expansive tailors in the world;
the current price for a fully bespoke Huntsman suit is £ 3657.
This work worth £ 3657?
You said that any good tailor can do a suit like this,and i agree.
My tailor in Messina can do,and for a three pieces suit take 800 euros (£ 693.64) more the cloth (at the most others 150-200 euros).

Posted Image

But my tailor don't can cut a double breasted fine like this of Pirozzi,Naples.

Posted Image

The cost of a suit of Pirozzi is 2400 euros (£ 2080.92),but it worth all.
So why someone should pay £ 3657 for a suit that " Any good tailor can do that"?

Edited by carpu65, 29 April 2010 - 08:26 AM.

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#9 Sator

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 11:14 AM

But my tailor don't can cut a double breasted fine like this of Pirozzi,Naples.

Posted Image

The cost of a suit of Pirozzi is 2400 euros (£ 2080.92),but it worth all.
So why someone should pay £ 3657 for a suit that " Any good tailor can do that"?


The Pirozzi is very nice. The main feature is that the shoulders are given more shape (spalla insellata). The lapels have a more dramatic width to them. I would not be surprised if your tailor could make these more sculpted shoulders. It is rather time consuming to make these sort of shoulders and you may be charged a little more for it however.

People buy a Huntsman because the Savile Row name is a status symbol, and to help continue the tradition. The West End of London is also an extremely expensive place to run a business and this has to be handed down to the client. It is interesting that the price of a Huntsman was $625 US for a suit in 1974. This is around $2700 in today's money. When I was at Huntsman a couple of years ago, I overheard them quoting £3700 starting price for a two piece lounge suit to a customer who enquired as well.

#10 Sator

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 02:20 PM

BTW I also like this coat a lot:

Posted Image

It has beautifully shaped shoulders. Notice too how the stripes run nicely parallel to the lapel edge. The stripes do not get cut off.

#11 Nishijin

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 10:32 PM

People buy a Huntsman because the Savile Row name is a status symbol, and to help continue the tradition. The West End of London is also an extremely expensive place to run a business and this has to be handed down to the client. It is interesting that the price of a Huntsman was $625 US for a suit in 1974. This is around $2700 in today's money. When I was at Huntsman a couple of years ago, I overheard them quoting £3700 starting price for a two piece lounge suit to a customer who enquired as well.



I think the highest prices are in Paris, where there are several tailoring houses where the starting price (2 pieces lounge suit) is of 5000€, or even more. It is very hard to find a tailor in Paris for less than 3000€, and in France for less than 1600€. There are some, but it is "unofficial business", shall we say :Whistle:

Given the price of premises (rent) and the high tax burden and the time required to cut, fit and make a suit, it is easy to compute the math concluding than any price lower maked business unprofitable. Sad but true...
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#12 Frog in Suit

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 08:35 PM

I think the highest prices are in Paris, where there are several tailoring houses where the starting price (2 pieces lounge suit) is of 5000€, or even more. It is very hard to find a tailor in Paris for less than 3000€, and in France for less than 1600€. There are some, but it is "unofficial business", shall we say Posted Image

Given the price of premises (rent) and the high tax burden and the time required to cut, fit and make a suit, it is easy to compute the math concluding than any price lower maked business unprofitable. Sad but true...


Apart from the fact that I like the firmer version of the SR cut, and find it more flattering to my -- let us kindly agree to call it "average" and leave it at that Posted Image -- physique, those numbers explain why I have never even tried to find a tailor in Paris. My own tailors' current prices are still under 3.000€ for a two-piece suit (@ 1.15 € per £; it has often been better in the last few months); they travel to Paris several (three, four) times a year and when I go to London, I try to get the cheapest possible tickets and to get the most out of my trips. I do love London, but restaurants and hotels are very expensive Posted Image for us continentals…
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#13 Muscle Car TC

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 05:48 AM

The Pirozzi is very nice. The main feature is that the shoulders are given more shape (spalla insellata). The lapels have a more dramatic width to them. I would not be surprised if your tailor could make these more sculpted shoulders. It is rather time consuming to make these sort of shoulders and you may be charged a little more for it however.

People buy a Huntsman because the Savile Row name is a status symbol, and to help continue the tradition. The West End of London is also an extremely expensive place to run a business and this has to be handed down to the client. It is interesting that the price of a Huntsman was $625 US for a suit in 1974. This is around $2700 in today's money. When I was at Huntsman a couple of years ago, I overheard them quoting £3700 starting price for a two piece lounge suit to a customer who enquired as well.


According to what members of AAAC (Ask Andy About Clothes), FL (Fedora Lounge), LL (London Lounge) and SF (Style Forum) recently stated, H. Huntsman's starting price for a bespoke suit is now up to £4,200.

#14 Muscle Car TC

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 05:54 AM

And this delivers we to another question.
Huntsman is one of more expansive tailors in the world;
the current price for a fully bespoke Huntsman suit is £ 3657.
This work worth £ 3657?
You said that any good tailor can do a suit like this,and i agree.
My tailor in Messina can do,and for a three pieces suit take 800 euros (£ 693.64) more the cloth (at the most others 150-200 euros).

Posted Image

But my tailor don't can cut a double breasted fine like this of Pirozzi,Naples.

Posted Image

The cost of a suit of Pirozzi is 2400 euros (£ 2080.92),but it worth all.
So why someone should pay £ 3657 for a suit that " Any good tailor can do that"?


Sartoria Pirozzi's starting price for a bespoke suit is currently €2,430 (£2,103.48) according to members of AAAC, FL, LL and SF. Not to mention, Sartoria Pirozzi (whose definitive house style is Enzo Pirozzi's own interpretation of the Neapolitan Italian cut) uses much more handwork (and, 100-1, better or much better quality) than H. Huntsman (whose definitive house style is the founder's or founders' own interpretation of the Military English cut).

Edited by Muscle Car TC, 10 May 2010 - 05:57 AM.


#15 Sator

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 10:11 PM

H. Huntsman ...whose definitive house style is the founder's or founders' own interpretation of the Military English cut


I own British texts discussing the cutting of lounge coats dating back to the 1860s through to the 1980s. Never once have I encountered anything in print that entailed that a lounge coat could either be cut or made up to make it more "military". A dissection of a Huntsman reveals a modestly soft and middle of the road construction. The Canali I dissected has more structure. All of this suggests that the notion of the Savile Row Military English Cut is just hype. Unless of course, we really are talking about military uniforms rather than civilian lounge coats.

#16 Nishijin

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 10:31 PM

Sator, do bust this myth, would you per chance have something on the making of military garments ? It would be very interesting to show the differences with lounge coats...


I know personnaly little about French military making, but from what I've seen, I am not under the impression that they are overly "hard". I even know that a maker for the Gendarmerie Nationale used to use the same canvas for the chest as for the front (a coarse wool canvas, coarser that I generally use, but I have some and it is nice for heavy tweeds).
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#17 Sator

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 10:40 PM

I am afraid I own nothing specific to making up military regalia. I have sadly seen nothing old or new in either the English language or German.

One thing I know is that a local Italian tailor made a coat for the New South Wales police commissioner - who, for a period of time a while back, was English. He brought in his Savile Row uniform coat to be copied. Apparently it "weighed a tonne" and was very heavily constructed.

#18 Frog in Suit

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 04:16 AM

One thing I know is that a local Italian tailor made a coat for the New South Wales police commissioner - who, for a period of time a while back, was English. He brought in his Savile Row uniform coat to be copied. Apparently it "weighed a tonne" and was very heavily constructed.


Could it be that the weight is due both to the cloth itself (as in the dress uniforms – the "red coats" one sees around Buckingham Palace --) which must be very heavy (Melton? 16 oz. at the very least?) and also to the abundant structural lining and padding made necessary by that heavy cloth in order to give it shape?

My own suits tend to be heavy too, as I do not have anything made of any cloth under 12/13 oz.. Somehow I find the weight comforting.
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