Jump to content


Photo

Books


  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1 Kenn

Kenn

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 48 posts

Posted 14 April 2018 - 12:32 AM

May some already know this but others may not, it was certainly a revelation for me.
Cabera's and Poulins book costs 100.00$ on Amazon.
I don't know about you, but that's alot for a book.
So I found them on https://archive.org put them to Adobe Document Cloud, once there downloaded the book and print from there.
For the price of a print cartridge and a pack of paper, it beats 100.00$.

#2 Claire Shaeffer

Claire Shaeffer

    Apprentice

  • Professional
  • PipPip
  • 205 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Palm Springs, CA USA
  • Interests:haute couture

Posted 14 April 2018 - 03:02 AM

I am an author and have mixed feelings about sites like archive.org. 

 

The Poulin book is out of print and has not been revised; however, it's copyright is still valid. However, only used book dealers are selling the book and Poulin or his heirs are not making a profit. If you consider the number of books you buy at a very discounted price, it isn't unreasonable to consider paying more for a book that is relatively rare. 

 

The Cabrera book has been revised. When you download the original, you are depriving the author of the Revised edition of his royalties. If you've never written a book, you have no idea how much time and effort is involved in addition to the knowledge you bring to the book. I encourage you to give this some thought before you rush to download the Cabrera book. 

 

Two of my books can be downloaded on another site. One book is in print and the second is out of print. Even so, I own the copyrights for both and am working to have both removed. My books and patterns can be bought on Amazon. I don't receive any royalties from 2ndhand books, but I support the booksellers. 

 

Claire Shaeffer


  • fronno, jeffrey2117, manxd and 1 other like this

Claire Shaeffer

Author, Couture Sewing Techniques

claire.shaeffer@gmail.com

www.sewfari.org


#3 Kenn

Kenn

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 48 posts

Posted 14 April 2018 - 03:23 AM

I agree with you as far as it goes that someone would be deprived of something.
In this case both men are deceased and the families are not receiving anything.
On the other hand Stanley Hostek's family is still producing his work and selling it.
That is something entirely different, and I have purchased one so far.
I have written an unpublished book and do realize all that goes into it.
As far as it goes downloading deceased mens work is second hand, your just not paying a second hand dealer.
Best Regards

#4 Der Zuschneider

Der Zuschneider

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,444 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:TX, Houston
  • Interests:- German Cutting Systems
    - Modern Tailoring by German Semi-Traditional Standards

Posted 14 April 2018 - 08:08 AM

I am an author and have mixed feelings about sites like archive.org. 

 

The Poulin book is out of print and has not been revised; however, it's copyright is still valid. However, only used book dealers are selling the book and Poulin or his heirs are not making a profit. If you consider the number of books you buy at a very discounted price, it isn't unreasonable to consider paying more for a book that is relatively rare. 

 

The Cabrera book has been revised. When you download the original, you are depriving the author of the Revised edition of his royalties. If you've never written a book, you have no idea how much time and effort is involved in addition to the knowledge you bring to the book. I encourage you to give this some thought before you rush to download the Cabrera book. 

 

Two of my books can be downloaded on another site. One book is in print and the second is out of print. Even so, I own the copyrights for both and am working to have both removed. My books and patterns can be bought on Amazon. I don't receive any royalties from 2ndhand books, but I support the booksellers. 

 

Claire Shaeffer

 

 

I have two of your books laying around here. Someone gave them to me. It is a lot of work to write one.


www.berlinbespokesuits.com

#5 manxd

manxd

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 9 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 April 2018 - 09:09 AM

Amazon book prices rise and fall all the time. I bought the newly revised Cabrera book for $50 when it was released. Since then I have seen it at the same price a couple times, add it to your wishlist and periodically check. I understand downloading a copy of a book that is out of print and otherwise unavailable by other means, but I would encourage to support the authors whenever possible.



#6 Kenn

Kenn

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 48 posts

Posted 14 April 2018 - 09:45 AM

I am new here so not familiar with your books Claire Shaeffer.
Also Manxd agree 100%,that's why when I found out that Stanley Hostek's were available I bought them directly from his children.
I am a big believer in keeping it local so to speak.

#7 Steelmillal

Steelmillal

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 60 posts

Posted 14 April 2018 - 10:05 AM

Ms. Shaeffer's books rock. And I agree copyright law applies until expiration.

2nd hand booksellers are a good resource for out-of-print editions, so please make the effort to find copies vs. supporting illegal resources of readily available products.

Besides, this forum is nearly a decade old containing knowledge no book can equal.

#8 Schneiderfrei

Schneiderfrei

    Pro

  • Senior Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 900 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Adelaide, Australia
  • Interests:learning and imagination

Posted 14 April 2018 - 11:20 AM

$100.00 is not a great deal to pay for a textbook.  Some of my Medical ones are up to $500.00.  An old friend found the book he had to have for $1500.00.  Whether we agree or not, not up to us to determine the worthiness of the current owner of the copyright.

 

I do translations of many of the articles in the old German Literature.  I never publish modern ones, even though I have done them. And I only publish single articles and I specify that they are for private study only.


  • Steelmillal likes this

Shell made out of gold
Found on a beach picked up and you held so close


#9 lngn2

lngn2

    Apprentice

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 150 posts

Posted 14 April 2018 - 06:37 PM

Tis true Schneiderfrei - when I was a student back in the early '00s we were advised to use a particular Roman Law textbook published in the 1970s as it was still the leading text. We had 4 copies available to the whole of Cambridge and I recall a friend of mine forking out 350 GBP to buy his own!
  • Schneiderfrei likes this

#10 lngn2

lngn2

    Apprentice

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 150 posts

Posted 14 April 2018 - 06:37 PM

Tis true Schneiderfrei - when I was a student back in the early '00s we were advised to use a particular Roman Law textbook published in the 1970s as it was still the leading text. We had 4 copies available to the whole of Cambridge and I recall a friend of mine forking out 350 GBP to buy his own!

#11 peterle

peterle

    Apprentice

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 319 posts

Posted 14 April 2018 - 07:47 PM

To be precise, copyright allows making copies for personal use and certain educational purposes. We pay a fee with every printer and every Xerox machine and hard disc to compensate for the copyright owner (at least in Austria and Germany). So there is no reason to feel guilty when making copies for personal use. This, of course, applies only for legal copies.


  • Kenn likes this

#12 Kenn

Kenn

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 48 posts

Posted 14 April 2018 - 09:35 PM

To clarify I am not arguing just have a discussion.
So if I understand this correctly and after looking into copyright laws,the copyright on a book is 70 to 100 yrs. after the death of the author,and if the author did or didn't renew the copyright before said death which could extend it out further.
This applies to public dissemination not private usage.
This makes me wonder about the information shared from books here.
Not being able to talk about stuff pre 1940 that would be within the 70 to 100 yr. time frame.
If the Internet Archive is an illegal site would it not be illegal to post information from books here if they fall within that time frame and if the author extended the copyright?
But paying second hand is not illegal?
Wouldn't that be public dissemination of copyrighted work?
Sound pretty vague.

#13 Steelmillal

Steelmillal

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 60 posts

Posted 15 April 2018 - 06:15 AM

Excerpts to explain a point or skill are different than full digital copies of a publisher's product. Here exists discussions of paths to a product, not the production design parameters. Author intent is that trade artisans use drafts, etc, to develop a product for consumers, not blindly cut n paste cookie cutter style and hope it fits. Here is bespoke not RTW.

2nd hand used copies is reselling 1:1. Dumping to open online punlic sites breaks copyright, damages earnings, and removes reason for effort to pass on knowledge. No such thing as a free lunch. Somebody pays, somehow. Plus, 100$ is cheap for some rare books, and won't buy new Mueller copies.

Stick to reading the forum for a year or so, and save your money. Muscle memory and physical deftness from patient practice means more than a stack of trophy books, IMHO. Talk the talk v. walk the walk.
  • tombennett and Kenn like this

#14 Schneiderfrei

Schneiderfrei

    Pro

  • Senior Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 900 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Adelaide, Australia
  • Interests:learning and imagination

Posted 15 April 2018 - 01:10 PM

Tis true Schneiderfrei - when I was a student back in the early '00s we were advised to use a particular Roman Law textbook published in the 1970s as it was still the leading text. We had 4 copies available to the whole of Cambridge and I recall a friend of mine forking out 350 GBP to buy his own!

 

Ingn2, it's funny, over the past 15 years I have actually purchased over half a dozen antique anatomy books that came from the Cambridge Anatomy Library.

 

:)


Edited by Schneiderfrei, 15 April 2018 - 01:12 PM.

Shell made out of gold
Found on a beach picked up and you held so close


#15 Schneiderfrei

Schneiderfrei

    Pro

  • Senior Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 900 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Adelaide, Australia
  • Interests:learning and imagination

Posted 15 April 2018 - 01:24 PM

Paying for second hand is a very interesting problem, You are not changing the work in any way and the intellectual property is not mis-attributed.  So, fair enough.

 

I might be out of date, but I recall that properly attributed sharing of a written work could be up to 10%. 

 

Above all, the recovery of royalties is in itself a costly legal enterprise. The decision to enforce is likely a financial one.  Unless of course a lesson is to be enforced.

 

G


  • Kenn likes this

Shell made out of gold
Found on a beach picked up and you held so close


#16 Kenn

Kenn

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 48 posts

Posted 16 April 2018 - 05:31 AM

Didn't expect this...wow.
Seems it can go either way concerning this issue with deceased authors books.
100 dollars is cheap if you have 1,000.
The Stanely Hostek book I bought was 23.99 with s and h, and this was from the family.
Another seller on Amazon wants 1,300 for it.
If the family was not still publishing it and I wanted a concise reference instead of searching posts to orderly find out how to do something, is paying 1,300 dollars to someone who is only benefiting the person selling the book and not the author or his family a reasonable thing?
Or finding it on the internet and paying for ink and paper for about the price a reasonable second hand book would/should cost?
Either way this site is invaluable.

#17 greger

greger

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,144 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington, USA

Posted 16 April 2018 - 05:42 AM

Supply and demand,  and those who have an imagination. 

 

Knowledge can be worth less than the book,  or far more. 



#18 Kenn

Kenn

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 48 posts

Posted 16 April 2018 - 07:12 AM

True




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users