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Analysis of a Hand Made Shirt

Jeffery Diduch 100 Hands hand sewn shirts

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#1 tailleuse

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 03:05 AM

"There is a lot of romance surrounding the art of making clothing by hand and I feel that a lot of the techniques have been mythologized beyond what they should be, mainly repeated received wisdom without challenging the [shibboleths] of 100 years ago. Such myths as seams having to be done by hand in order to give them elasticity of which a machine is not capable, to which I ask, if a machine is not capable of producing a seam with elasticity, then are bathing suits, underwear and athletic wear all sewn by hand? Or perhaps that a hand-sewn seam will mold to the body in a way a machine-sewn seam can not. It is said that hand tailoring is just better than machine sewing. This is often part of a marketing spiel designed to sell you an expensive product."

 

Then the author, Jeffery Diduch, was give a shirt to examine by the Netherlands company 100 Hands.

 

"This shirt truly is hand made. Certain seams which require strength have been sewn by machine using impossibly tiny stitches, but practically everything else has been done by hand. While many hand finished shirts I have seen use longer, lighter stitches usually out of expediency, those stitches are often delicate and do not withstand the kind of abuse to which a shirt is often subjected. In this case, however, the sewing is astonishing, both in the density of the stitches which make for a far more durable garment, as for their evenness and regularity."

 

Lots more on the site.

 

 

100 Hands via Made by Hand - The Great Sartorial Debate.


Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#2 greger

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 04:34 PM

Romance and mythologized really isn't how to judge a stitch, though, many do. It's all technical. As far as sports wear I've noticed, at least on some of it, some threads themselves are elastic. Pretty much the nature of the back stitch and over cast stitch are the same, they both have length to give. One you can press open, the other one you can't. The back stitch and lock stitch mathematically stretch the same length, but diagonal the back stitch has length to give, "elastic". Tight stitches has less to give. And skill level matters, too. Skill levels have changed. How many dead straight hand sewn seams do you see anymore? Both hand sewn and machine sewn have value.

On the shirt you can see diagonal stitches. Some people like it that way. Or, the diagonal parts could be out of sight. The hem roll is really nice. If the stitches were looser there would be no dimples.
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#3 posaune

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 07:52 PM

Nice shirts no question about that.

Excerpt out of Parisan Gentlemen
Adriano DIRNELLI
13 Sept 2015

its done using a signature technique (using a microscope) taking more than one hour to complete a
single buttonhole and approximately three hours to complete a three-letter monogram. What a work of art!
....starting EUR 169 (Black Line) and EUR 249 (Gold Line) with Bespoke shirts being 15-20 percent higher.


This is kind of crazyness for me.
Imagine 12 button holes ..... .. sitting 12 hours and stitching while looking into a microscop!

It is way too cheap.
I have heard recently a custom tailor requested 400 for a custom made shirt
Only buttonholes made by hand (and not under a microscop).
I hope the sewist will get paid accordingly.

lg
posaune

#4 Terri

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 09:37 PM

I haven't read the post or looked at their website, but if there seems to be a discrepancy if they cost what Posaune says and yet they spend an hour per buttonhole.
Taking advantage of offshore labour the same as big clothing manufacturers do, or are they made in Europe? maybeit is only on the bespoke shirts?

#5 posaune

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 10:52 PM

all work is done in India, Terri. How can it be bespoke???
lg
posaune
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#6 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 01:54 AM

I think, to compare this shirt with some of the photos from Gramontoto on this forum, Gramontoto's buttons were equally beautiful if not better.  

 

He didn't mention a microscope ;)


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#7 posaune

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 03:06 AM

Schneiderfrei, as more I think about the article from Parisian Gentleman as angrier I get.

They may use a magnifying glass as the embroiderer do - no microscop.
It would be a huge effort - it has to do with the depth of field from a microscop

at the firm's side you read nothing about a microscop.

lg
posaune

By the way, what does that mean:
Signature threadless stitching mechanics ??

#8 greger

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 05:54 AM

Reading the comments below the article

"This reminds me of Laura Ingalls Wilder's account of working as a seamstress in the late 1800s, just before sewing machines became available. She also mentions her mother's ability to sew sixty buttonholes in an hour, quite an accomplishment even then."

This maybe an error. Although, piano players can get in a huge amount of notes in almost zero time. Some tailors can easily do a coat button hole in less than 6 minutes.

Another person brought up that the hand stitch where the hand needle can catch one cloth thread, two, three, etc. of the underside. Whereas, the machine sews the same amount top and bottom. If you catch one thread on the bottom that stitch has very different properties than the the full catch. And the back stitch can be varied from full to one thread back.

If you are going to sew with tight tension, in many cases, might as well use a sewing machine.

When you look at some old books, logs, etc. before the sewing machine, and, even some after, these tailors were very fast sewers. One time sheet I looked at for coat, vest and trousers, at least the coat would be finished in 21 1/2 hours. If you don't keep up you don't have a job. Another book was showing that they were paid by the stitch, and some stitches are worth more. If you sit upon the bench hand sewing it doesn't take long for you to be able to glance at a length and know how many stitches to sew it. Nobody counts machine stitches. But, if you do sit on the bench a lot you know what lengths of thread, and, how many for every part of garment. Sewing machine use has removed a whole type of thinking that was common. Here is another thought, properly spaced stitches that are loose enough then movement spread over a larger area. Closer stitches with more thread tension puts movement in a smaller area. Lets compare this with wire. The more you bend it in one small area the sooner it breaks.

Something about custom made. Does it have to be made in house? Even some SR when to busy send out and they consider that bespoke. If it meets the quality standards, even if made in another country, what is wrong with it? It's still being made be humans, and not martians from outer space, right? It doesn't matter if the shirts are made in India, or somewhere else.

Edited by greger, 07 August 2016 - 05:58 AM.

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#9 tailleuse

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 07:33 AM

all work is done in India, Terri. How can it be bespoke???
lg
posaune

 

As greger said, Savile Row firms sometimes use finishers who are contract workers. What difference does it make where they live if the work is done well?  Now the question of the workers being paid less than in a Western country is another question.


Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#10 tailleuse

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 07:35 AM

Reading the comments below the article

"This reminds me of Laura Ingalls Wilder's account of working as a seamstress in the late 1800s, just before sewing machines became available. She also mentions her mother's ability to sew sixty buttonholes in an hour, quite an accomplishment even then."

This maybe an error. 

 

I assumed that was a mistake too.  Also, she may have sewn her clothes, like most women of the time, but that doesn't mean she sewed them well.


Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#11 Henry Hall

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 07:47 AM

 

As greger said, Savile Row firms sometimes use finishers who are contract workers. What difference does it make where they live if the work is done well?  Now the question of the workers being paid less than in a Western country is another question.

India is not in Amsterdam, whereas Savile Row's outworkers are in the same country (though not necessarily in the same city or county!). You can bet your life that the Indian workers are exploited.

 

I for one am sick of hearing about shiny new shirtmakers popping up everywhere with their flash websites and marketing lies. They measure people in a nice office and the person never sees the poor saps who weave the real magic and then go home to a third-world lifestyle.

 

I can speak with a little confidence about this because just recently I was contacted by someone (who got my number from someone else) to work in their new operation; basically measuring people and buttering them up to open their wallets, while all the shirts are made in (as Hutch rightly calls them) "Asian slave-pits". I have a proper job so I naturally declined, but I sat and listened as this trio of smirking swindlers laid out their "business model".

 

A pox on the lot of them.


Edited by Henry Hall, 07 August 2016 - 07:59 AM.

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Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

- Otto Jespersen (How to Teach a Foreign Language).


#12 Steelmillal

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 11:06 AM

To be clear I'm not in any way pitching for more regulation, but unintended consequences in labeling laws allow hucksters of all creeds to dupe consumers. Massive textile China-towns setup in Italy just for 'made in Italy' credentials is an example. India is simply another low cost supply source for multi-tiered markups.

Short supply chains make for secure and robust economies for every economy, IMHO. Conversely, 40 years of ever increasing loose money policy financing manufacturing globalization certainly has been a negative influence to many sectors. Less than free and open markets through over-regulation and tarrifs is another, to overstate the obvious.

Now...on a much lighter tone, if anyone gets a solid lead on some genuine knockoff Martian outsourced Magnum P.I. Hawaiian shirts crafted in a corozo buttoned, Belgian linen-Russian hemp blend, I'm in for a dozen...15.5" neck..half sleeves of course. We can talk specific patterns later. I'm may also be willing to take on the exclusive distribution, less SpaceX shipping costs, conditional on sample evaluation. Just sayin :)
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#13 posaune

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 06:38 PM

A bespoke shirt is a bespoke shirt when there is a fitting. If not it is Made to Measure.
Be it hand stitched in India or England or on the moon.
The firm itself does not say it shirts are bespoke. It is the author of this article.
Here an another excerpt:

I decided to accept the challenge by choosing a fabric and sending one of my shirts
to indicate the fit.

Four weeks later I received my 100Hands shirt. On wearing, I immediately noticed that they copied
my base measurements but also made several critical changes................


And I wholehearted agree with Henry.
lg
posaune

They send free shirts to communicators and voila ......

(later) I add this:
I wanted to know about the time for a hand made buttonhole from experienced buttonhole stitcher.
I looked in my Tailors "Bible" (Willi Leibold). He calculated for all buttonholes in a coat - marking and stitching - 60 minutes.
6 at sleeves and 3 at CF. And done over gimp. 6.7 min for one.

Edited by posaune, 08 August 2016 - 01:36 AM.

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#14 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 08:18 PM

Hi Posaune,

 

Re: By the way, what does that mean:

Signature threadless stitching mechanics ?? 
 
A signature technique means that it is a technique that is unique to them, secret, I suppose, they want you to understand.
 
I could find the threadless mechanics reference but I have no idea what that means - its jargon.
 
And that talk of time - one hour  three hours ?? then they talk of 1.5 - 3 days and he got his shirt in a month.  It all sounds made up to me.  What tailor would be happy to produce a button hole in 1 hour   No no no.
 
and its all done in India,  Hmm maybe they are made by Vegans.  Am I too naughty?

Edited by Schneiderfrei, 07 August 2016 - 08:24 PM.

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#15 Henry Hall

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 12:37 AM

Short supply chains make for secure and robust economies for every economy, IMHO. Conversely, 40 years of ever increasing loose money policy financing manufacturing globalization certainly has been a negative influence to many sectors. Less than free and open markets through over-regulation and tarrifs is another, to overstate the obvious.
 

 

There's nothing obvious about that at all. These 'markets' are so open it's spilling out all over the place. To suggest there is 'over-regulation' is a complete fantasy. These global markets are already like a wild west town, with the resulting lawlessness. 

 

There's no earthly reason clothing shouldn't be made domestically, other than capitalism's permanent obsession with wanting to reduce cost and raise profit, even when that cost equates to people's livelihoods and being properly rewarded for their skills. 


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Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

- Otto Jespersen (How to Teach a Foreign Language).


#16 Dunc

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 07:54 PM

An hour for a buttonhole? The photos are good enough that you can count the stitches and work out what that would mean: around one stitch per minute.

 

Maybe it takes a long time to adjust the microscope? ;)



#17 Steelmillal

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 11:00 AM

 
There's nothing obvious about that at all. These 'markets' are so open it's spilling out all over the place. To suggest there is 'over-regulation' is a complete fantasy. These global markets are already like a wild west town, with the resulting lawlessness. 
 
There's no earthly reason clothing shouldn't be made domestically, other than capitalism's permanent obsession with wanting to reduce cost and raise profit, even when that cost equates to people's livelihoods and being properly rewarded for their skills. 



#18 Steelmillal

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 12:11 PM

Rubbish! Well my last attempted quote copied post proves computer illiteracy on my part...

Capitalism, which isn't perfect, gets a bad rep for mean people practicing greed in commerce. Now I support international free trade wholeheartedly, feeding frenzies and all, but that support is rooted tandem with true poltical liberty. Free will, Old Teatament survival of the fittest. My over regulation comment was opaque critisism of less than free and ooen developing markets that keep US products, and others, uncompetitive, or those regs in the US that makes small business startups, etc, prohibitive if not damn near impossible. Self employment taxes rate right up with estate taxes that keep me awake at night. I should be so lucky to have the headache of Sino-American corporate negotiions so I could relinquish my intellectual property rights just to make a quick buck.

Now I'm just a simple country mouse. I'd just assume be able to walk or cycle everywhere to get what I need from a local butcher, baker and candlestick maker, much like that is still possible in India. But if Corporate India can sort out how to peddle their JIT made dress shirts profitably, more power to them. That will only last until their own domestic wealth growth prices them out of markets and foreign investments plunk down offshore/next door to me.

Be patient. Things are moving. Gotta buisness girl-friend running a big Tier 1 automotive supply chain who's pulling everything back local domestic from offshore. Easy margins are disappearing quickly. Globization is failing. Main Street 'wherever' is returning rapidly. Just gotta ride the storm waves, get all those taxes and regulations out of the way of honest commerce, and let the pendulum swing...

Anyway, sorry y'all, for the econ prattling. I'll just stick with the cheesy Hawaiian shirt jokes :) I really would like to find some linen/hemp blended fabric if anyone knows of any suppliers. Cheers, y'all.





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