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#1 Newbie

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 07:18 PM

I am of course aware that I stretch the members patience with all the novice advice I need on pattern drafting, but I made a draft for another friend of mine and it turnes out there are rather severe fitting issues again ;)

I opened a new thread, only to avoid any confusion on what draft we are currently talking about.

 

Starting with the Rundschau draft form Müller and Söhne I already tried to adjust for the sloping shoulders, especially on the right side.

 

The problems I see so far are:

 

the left shoulder is cut to steep, therefore the whole shirt seems to lean to the right. 

the dart between yoke and back seems too big, since the area feels uncomfortably close to the body

the biggest issue however is, that the circ of the front armhole is larger than the back armhole. The front seems to be cut too bellied (?), therefore the chest area seems to protrude a little around the armhole (you can see what I mean on one of the side views). It could of course also be a balance issue, since it seems the front balance is a little too long, but this would only account for about 1 cm, I guess - the front armhole however is about 3 cm bigger then the back.

There are also some wrinkles on the side seams, I don't know how to get rid off.

 

Schack4.jpg

 

Schack2.jpg

 

Schack3.jpg

 

 

Schack1.jpg

 

 

I am of course eternally grateful for all the great advice this forum offers and I hope I'm not overly insolent in asking for the same help over and over again. 

 

 


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#2 posaune

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 09:35 PM

well, show us the pattern. It can't be that you get different armholes because of a hanging side.

By the way this guy needs a belly draft. That will take care of a lot of problems.

For a diffcult customer I draft every time without a yoke - it makes the fitting more easy.

lg

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#3 Terri

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 10:28 PM

As Posaune says. Needs a belly draft to start with and an adjustment for the hanging shoulder.
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#4 Newbie

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 11:22 PM

So this is the Pattern... unfortunately the seam allowance is already on it, so the front has 1 cm at the side seam, but the back only 0,5 cm. 

I tried to mark the alterations I should do on the second image in red. The blue lines at the shoulders are the right side, I of course adjusted the armhole depth accordingly , the red lines show how I would adjust the left shoulder to make the yoke more even. I already minimized the waist supression on the garment, so I didn't cut out the waist supression as the patterns shows (see the blue lines in the second image)

 

IMG-20190915-145344.jpg

 

Pattern.jpg

 

Is this what you mean by belly draft? How is this effecting the look on a striped shirt?


Edited by Newbie, 15 September 2019 - 11:26 PM.


#5 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 01:06 AM

A belly draft/corpulent draft is not a personal judgement. He he.

 

It's just a technique in fitting that takes into account a belly that pushes forward. 

 

Corpulent is, by definition, where the waist measurement is greater than the chest.

 

Another related situation is sometimes called a hollow back. the waist is not in excess of the chest but the silhouette is loose and the belly ends up pushed forward.  There are many drafts for corpulence and very few, if any, hollow back drafts for shirts, 

 

there are a few examples in the forum for corpulence. there is a draft for a hollow back jacket somewhere. Maybe on the other forum?


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#6 peterle

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 08:25 PM

It´s not the shirt that leans to the side, it is the body. The customer has a very severe low right shoulder, look at his thumbs in the first pic. Usually the low shoulder is combined with a protruding hip on the same side. You have to draw the other pattern side also and than you have to cut and pivot the pattern pieces to adapt.

 

As Schneiderfrei wrote, a belly pattern is meant for bodies with a  waist measure bigger than the chest measure. Tell us, wether this is the case for your customer, so we know how to proceed.

 

Generally for assymetric bodies striped fabric is less suitable because it emphasises the asymmetry. Checkered fabric is even worse. Better choose other patterns. In a belly draft you will take the (slanted) center front (CF) line as grain line, so it will look like a normal shirt, but you will see it at the side seam, wich is not parallel anymore to the CF.


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#7 posaune

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 08:31 PM

When I do a hanging side I do it to the front and the back shoulder and armhole the same amount from the bodice. I let the yoke as is.  In this way the difference front armhole - back armhole stays the same. You have done the alteration on the front part of the yoke and front bodice.

For a Mueller draft your front armscye is very big and the back small. Please controll.

He is by no means fat or so. It is his hip posture which sticks the belly out and the rear too - so you have to have room for both.

You must measure or guestimate what your customer needs in the front: If  you look at the side view his belly point starts about 3 cm before the bust. So you need 3 cm more at waist level in front width. You split this in 3 parts:  Give 1.5 in the CF and 0.75 in each side seam at waist level. To get more length you rotate the front pattern - NOT spreading. So armhole stays. I think 1.5 cm will be enough 0 at armhole. Now connect and true all lines. When cutting the fabric you rotate the front pattern that the CF is vertical (grain linie). When fitting you can pin out at hip level at side seams a bit what is too much and avoid the pregnant look.

lg

posaune

I see Peterle has answered. I hope my explaination is not wrong or confusing


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#8 Newbie

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 03:59 AM

Thanks so much for all the advice. So just to make sure I'm getting this right I drew the alterations in multiple steps:

 

The drawing isn't the acutal draft, but merely a sketch to illustrate the different steps, so all the alterations are rather excessive. I skipped the back pattern in the illustration out of convenience, but I of course know that I have to alter the waist there as well.

 

 

First I give some extra width at the waist as posaune describes and draw out the waist and a new CF

 

draft1.jpg

 

Next I cut and rotate the draft to give extra lenght at the front (about 1,5 cm)

 

draft2.jpg

 

Now I have to admit I'm a little embarrassed that I don't know how to draft the CF: Do I just connect the two point as indicated in the blue line, or do I follow the already existing CF at the top as indicated by the yellow line. Isn't the blue line cutting away some width at the chest?

 

draft3.jpg

 

draft4.jpg


Edited by Newbie, 18 September 2019 - 04:01 AM.


#9 peterle

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 04:11 AM

You do the blue version.  When openig the slash for just 1,5cm the cutting away will be quite small.


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#10 Newbie

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 10:24 PM

So it's been a while, but I made another draft adjusting for the prominent belly. I think it is a big improvement but there are still several issues.

For once I made a mess trying to adjust the front balance, which was off by 1,5cm still, so please ignore the fact that the inserts are uneven and the little patch on the chest. 

I also have cut the right shoulder about 2cm steeper, but still I had to pin it about 2cm more to make the yoke more even.

Also I tried to pin the side seam at the bottom to make the shirt not sway away so much beneath the belly (posaune rightly refered to it as a "pregnant look" ;)). I seam to have missed the fact that the shirt got caught on the right side, I don't think this is a fitting issue altough he may have a protruding right hip as well.

 

IMG-20191011-140756.jpg

 

IMG-20191011-140813.jpg

 

IMG-20191011-140830.jpg

 

IMG-20191011-140854.jpg



#11 peterle

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 06:17 PM

A dramatic improvement! Bravo.

 

 In this picture set the hanging shoulder is quite obvious. When you make the shoulder steeper never forget to cut out the armhole out for the same amount. The armhole must keep it´s total size and form.

 

Unfortunately it doesn´t work to pin away the wavy front hem at the side seam. It is the wrong place and will cause new issues. You can see it in the pictures;  in the profile pics there are slight diagonal folds from the belly towards the hem at the side seam. The only way to remove the bell folds would be a vertical or horizontal dart like in a lounge coat, but the seams of a classic shirt don´t allow such a manipulation..



#12 Newbie

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 08:10 PM

A dramatic improvement! Bravo.

 

 In this picture set the hanging shoulder is quite obvious. When you make the shoulder steeper never forget to cut out the armhole out for the same amount. The armhole must keep it´s total size and form.

 

Unfortunately it doesn´t work to pin away the wavy front hem at the side seam. It is the wrong place and will cause new issues. You can see it in the pictures;  in the profile pics there are slight diagonal folds from the belly towards the hem at the side seam. The only way to remove the bell folds would be a vertical or horizontal dart like in a lounge coat, but the seams of a classic shirt don´t allow such a manipulation..

 

Thanks peterle. So that would mean I leave the side seams as they are. 

 

I forgot to mention that there seems to be some excess cloth on the back neckhole. I tried to pin it away, but I'm not sure how to transfer it to the pattern, because it would mean to cut away from the back neckhole at an angel.



#13 peterle

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 08:37 PM

Please remeasure the back neckhole. It tends to stretch while fitting, so probably you don´t need to pin something away. You always should secure the back neckhole with a row of machine stitching on the line to prevent stretching.



#14 Newbie

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 09:40 PM

You are right, it obviously stretched nearly by 0,7cm. I refrained from doing the staystitching on all my trial shirts since I thought I have to alter the neckline after all but I see now, that that might have been a mistake. So since after I remove the pinning of the side seam and change the shoulder slope on the right the torso seems ok, should I try to make the sleeves now, or is there something else to do first?



#15 peterle

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 08:47 PM

I think the low shoulder isn´t perfect yet. When you pinned away at the top did you also deepen the armhole? When you made the shoulder steeper, did you just draw a steeper angle or did you use the slash and pivot method? It is important to use the slash and pivot method, because it also alters the the chestwidth on the right side and keeps the armhole itself as is. It also alters the neckhole, so when you had to pin it, it was probably because you didn´t use the slash and pivot method.



#16 Newbie

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 11:19 PM

I think the low shoulder isn´t perfect yet. When you pinned away at the top did you also deepen the armhole? When you made the shoulder steeper, did you just draw a steeper angle or did you use the slash and pivot method? It is important to use the slash and pivot method, because it also alters the the chestwidth on the right side and keeps the armhole itself as is. It also alters the neckhole, so when you had to pin it, it was probably because you didn´t use the slash and pivot method.


Well, when I made the first alteration (I think it was 2cm) I used the slash and pivot method. On the picture I just pinned another 1.5 cm just to see how much alteration is needed. I, of course, will alter the pattern properly.

#17 peterle

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 12:41 AM

:thumbsup:






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