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Trousers creasing below the seat


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#1 breakingandy

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 08:06 AM

Hi all,

 

So I've been trying to test this tailor out, got 2 pairs of trousers made. I feel that there's something funny going on with the creases below the seat.

 

I have a rather large difference between the waist and hips, and a pair of muscular thighs to go with it. So I admit, I'm a complicated case but that's why I'm going to a tailor. I have a feeling that the waist angle might be a bit off but then again I'm no expert in judging my own bottom.

 

Any tips what to tell to my tailor to improve the fit?

 

Pictures here: http://imgur.com/a/ukuyn?gallery#0



#2 hutch48

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 08:40 AM

From a quick look at the photos, they are too tight across the hips and the inner leg needs shortening.



#3 SPOOKIETOO

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 11:07 AM

Hutch- are you sure? They look as if they're cut much too short in the seat to me. They seem to be fitting like thong underwear back there.

#4 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 12:18 PM

The tailor has drafted the pattern after an old pattern or he used an idol pattern with much ease over the hip. Then he didn't know how to get rid of the ease and reduced the back pattern tip to smaller the Spaltdurchmesser. Therefore the diaper look.

Your tailor is just not able or has any clue to draft a modern trouser for you, maybe he is too old fashion and greedy for every order. With the mouth a tailor can do everything, the reality then is different. 


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#5 greger

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 04:15 PM


¯\_(ツ)_/¯ at least let the fork inlays out.

Saw the pic above somewhere and thought I'd use it.

#6 breakingandy

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 04:56 PM

Thank you for the sound feedback. These were indeed taken in a little after the first fitting when there was ample room in the seat that caused the cloth to bunch up. I think he might've forgot to consider the implications that the waist was to be taken in on both pairs as well, albeit more so for the blue pair (around 1.5cm). I took a delivery after the second try (on my insistence) hoping he nailed down the problems, seems I might me going back. 



#7 breakingandy

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 05:14 PM

From a quick look at the photos, they are too tight across the hips and the inner leg needs shortening.

Inner leg is taken in at the fork? If anything, I feel that the crotch line is a bit too tight and could do with more space.

 

If I exaggerate the lower back curve these folds seem to flatten out. Similarly, one leg front the situation is a lot better as seen here: http://imgur.com/a/ukuyn?gallery#5



#8 Bespoke in Auckland

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 09:18 PM

Hi Breakigandy

I have a couple of questions for you

-are these trousers made by a tailor or mad to measure ?, easy to tell. (If made to measure the fix is harder as no decent inlays)

- are they wool or cotton?( If cotton you cannot fix nicely)

- did you have a fitting? Bit more info needed around this.

The remedy for the trousers is very difficult once made up. The time to resolve this would have been during the fitting. The fact that you have two hip pockets only compounds the problem once the trouser is made  

The old term is that you " stand on your trousers". It is not uncommon.

If this is another tailors work I am reticent to comment. 

So here is hoping they are made to measure.

Big job, that is why fitting is the best time to sort out the balance of a trouser and you cannot completely rectify the problem but this is the only way to get close after the trouser is made.

The preparation

1/ Undo the centre seat and waist seam 

2/ Take the waistband off the back of the trouser to about 2 inches in front of the side seam

3/ Undo the side seam down past the pocket

4/ Undo the first six or so inches of the fork

The alteration

1/ take in the side seam about 3/8 to o at level with base of the seat

2/ If you have 2 darts above each pocket as sometimes the case make the outside dart a "faux dart" like a pin tuck rather than a dart and adjust by taking in at the side seam and letting out in the seat

3 Let out the seat seam 6/8

4/ Let out the fork 3/8 plus

5/ at the side seam and the top of the back of the trouser o to the seat seam lower he band max of 3/8 as the pockets are in place and cannot be more.

Ideally on a tailored trouser you would lengthen the front rise 3/8. (Made to measure no inlay there.)

In pressing the trouser off shrink in the hams a little.

Bear in mind you have now straightened the trouser as this was the problem. The trouser was too crooked most likely. This is a fine balance as you may restrict movement on your stride when the trouser is too straight.

This is an alteration only and is no substitute for seeing a properly trained tailor ie one that has learned off another tailor and will have been taught this stuff on the way to becoming a cutter most likely

Hope that is of help

Regards

Brendon

Preston and Maurice


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#9 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 10:42 PM

Such trousers have to be constructed from the scratch. It is not easy to make tight fitting trousers. Alteration from a wide trouser to a tight trouser is even more difficult.


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#10 Bespoke in Auckland

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 06:02 AM

Sorry I left one thing out. Everything I said in previous post + .....The amount that you drop the waistband you should scoop out of the seat

Trouser will fit a lot better.

Generally factory made trousers tend to be a little crooked and this is a useful procedure to have up your sleeve

Regards

Brendon

Preston & Maurice


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#11 posaune

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 04:31 PM

Hi Brendon,
please, could you explain the meaning of crooked related to trousers. My english is limited and those technical expressions
are not easy for me to understand. I know what it means with coats.
lg
posaune

#12 MANSIE WAUCH

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 10:03 PM

Hi Brendon,
please, could you explain the meaning of crooked related to trousers. My english is limited and those technical expressions
are not easy for me to understand. I know what it means with coats.
lg
posaune

 

Coupled with the fact that these trousers have now developed a sleeve??? :twitch:


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#13 Bespoke in Auckland

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 10:24 PM

Hi Posaune Trousers are tough in that you are limited by what you can do. In this case the symptoms of this trouser are usually seen on someone that is erect in posture and another figure type of people and this sounds funny, but who are often an opposite of sorts. People with not a strong presence who are a bit what I would call inert with their presence. If you think of an actor at the ready, this is the opposite, Their posture all seem to collect at their hips. Hence they are putting a lot of pressure into the back of the trouser and often all the way down to the calf.

The seat angle in this case by the alteration I have suggested is in effect flatter. straighter. For an athletic figure the seat angle will be more severe or crooked to get over the seat. This is a very handy alteration but a bit of a chore and very necessary to take the waistband off at the back 

Seat angle is the key here and picking up and scooping out the seat. 

Have to go now but I will try and answer a bit more on this, but hope that is a little clearer

regards

Brendon


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#14 posaune

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 10:49 PM

Yes, thank you, Brendan. Now I know what here crooked meant.
lg
posaune

Coupled with the fact that these trousers have now developed a sleeve??? :twitch:

Oh yes, Mansie, Now you mentioned it - that was the most confusing part! :twitch:

#15 greger

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 08:06 AM

 
Coupled with the fact that these trousers have now developed a sleeve??? :twitch:


You've never heard of straightening and crooking trousers? No, I didn't say cooking trousers, since I don't eat them. Was at a bachelor's party and one of the gifts was bubble gum underwear.

Can't offhand think of any publications using this terminology 'straightening and crooking trousers'. Certainly it has been around for centuries.

#16 lepus

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 09:00 AM

Can't offhand think of any publications using this terminology 'straightening and crooking trousers'. Certainly it has been around for centuries.

 

J. King Wilson mentions the terms in his booklet and discourages their use, stating that they are in fact two of his balances rolled into one.

"But as we turn our attention to the art of cutting, for goodness sake let us drop (and try to rule out for ever afterwards) those misleading, but all-too-common, references to 'straight' and 'crooked' shoulders and similar descriptions of the seat angle. These terms are misnomers and, as such, best forgotten."

J. King Wilson, "The Art of Cutting and Fitting", 4th ed., page 9-10. (The terms appear again on page 21 and perhaps further on as well.)

Reuben Sytner dedicates a chapter to "Crookening and Straightening" in his "The Art of Fitting Gentlemen's Garments", but he only refers to jacket shoulders there.
 



#17 greger

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 10:43 AM

The problem of what J. King Wilson says, is, it is in so many publications so it can't be ignored. And there are others who are pretty sharp out there who use these words wisely. Not to mention, Wilson is, 'Johnny come lately'. Crook is shorter spelling, so has that advantage.

#18 jeffrey2117

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 11:56 AM

Hello Spookietoo,

 

    I just viewed the trouser photo's.  Looks like the tailor who made these used a classic trouser draft and tried to turn them into slim fitting trousers too me. 

 

I believe Hutch48 meant shorten the inseam measurement, which would give a longer rise,  not shorten the rise length, which would make the trousers even tighter in the under regions.   Not sure what cloth was used to make these up, the legs look really bad, due to muscular legs and need lot of work.

 

I would like to ask the poster if after the tailor make the trousers, did he then make the request for them to be made tighter and closer fitting in the seat and hips?

 

Kind regards

 

Jeffrey2117


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