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(Neo) Edwardian pictures.


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#37 Sator

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 02:00 PM

Some more Neo-Edwardiana from 1967:


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#38 Sator

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 02:10 PM

I dislike the phrase Permanent Style (not because of its originator but because of an ignorant and opinionated blogger who has latched onto it) but I know what it denotes and I think that it just means fitted bespoke tailoring (including any devices to hide physical defects)in a form that ignores the passing fads and fancies.


I must confess I've never seen anything that I have reacted particularly negatively to on that blog (I have only glanced at it a few times). At worst, you see the unoriginal rehashing of views culled from various clothing fora and blogs. The reason I don't read it is mostly because I find little that is penetratingly insightful there.

As for the notion of permanent style, the choice of the term "permanent" is rather unfortunate. If such a thing existed we would all be dressed like Beau Brummell - or macaronis! However, perhaps one could argue that one can have a "permanent address" without it excluding the possibility that one may one day move abode - perhaps even to Brazil :)

#39 Sator

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 02:48 PM

Another example of the Conduit Cut:

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#40 Artist's Eye

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Posted 27 April 2010 - 06:31 AM

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No turned back sleeve cuffs on those true Edwardian dinner jackets.
I suspect those on the Sinclair Conduit were borrowed from the smoking jacket, which only came back into fashion after WWII ended.

#41 NJS

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Posted 27 April 2010 - 11:09 AM

I must confess I've never seen anything that I have reacted particularly negatively to on that blog (I have only glanced at it a few times). At worst, you see the unoriginal rehashing of views culled from various clothing fora and blogs. The reason I don't read it is mostly because I find little that is penetratingly insightful there.

As for the notion of permanent style, the choice of the term "permanent" is rather unfortunate. If such a thing existed we would all be dressed like Beau Brummell - or macaronis! However, perhaps one could argue that one can have a "permanent address" without it excluding the possibility that one may one day move abode - perhaps even to Brazil :)


He suggests the 'insight' that the area of men's dress lacks 'good journalism' and, we might infer, that he is the man to supply it. Ho, ho, bloody ho! Apart from that point, absolutely nothing is permanent "One with Nineveh and Tyre" and all that... :Money Eyes: .

Edited by NJS, 27 April 2010 - 11:10 AM.

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#42 Sator

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Posted 27 April 2010 - 12:34 PM

No turned back sleeve cuffs on those true Edwardian dinner jackets.
I suspect those on the Sinclair Conduit were borrowed from the smoking jacket, which only came back into fashion after WWII ended.


Here are examples of dinner jackets with turn back cuffs from around the Edwardian era. The first one is from J.P. Thornton, 1913. The second illustration is from Vincent's CPG, circa 1912. Although admittedly published a couple of years after the death of Edward VII, I would say the pictures were completed at least a year before the actual publication date - as is usual when preparing a book. These sort of illustration can occasionally be found in print editions of the respective journals edited by Thornton (The West-End Gazette) and Vincent (The Tailor & Cutter) prior to the publication of the book.

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#43 Artist's Eye

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Posted 27 April 2010 - 03:39 PM

Thanks for the correction. The 1912 one on the bottom looks very nice.

It's odd to my modern eye to see those very high stiff collars under semi-dress jackets.
I even seen I'm sure, those very same shirts under dressing gowns.
I find it comic to think of them slipping a dressing gown over a starched front and going "Ah, that's better!"

#44 Sator

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Posted 27 April 2010 - 05:56 PM

Those high stiffly starched collars were often called "chokers". The Germans call them a "Vatermörder" or "father killers". Notice too how in those illustrations that they are wearing white ties. The convention of wearing white ties with full dress and black ones with dinner dress had not yet been established.

#45 I.Brackley

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 02:11 AM

Notice too how in those illustrations that they are wearing white ties. The convention of wearing white ties with full dress and black ones with dinner dress had not yet been established.


I wondered about that :Thinking: . I knew that the "dress lounge" was first employed as a sort of after-dinner wear once the evening had gender-segregated and the tail coat was shrugged off. I wondered if men then also changed their ties! :LMAO:
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#46 Sator

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 10:56 AM

This comes from Rundschau, 1st October, 1951. The article is about Englische Herrenmode - English Gentlemen's Fashion. The photos are evidently of English (presumably West End) coats, having been provided by Brithis Pictures.

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It seems the slanted pockets and side vents are meant to be in the style of a hacking jacket. Note the squared foreparts of the shawl collared dinner jacket.

The article also mentions the fashion for Edwardian styling with narrow cut trousers, longer jackets, narrow shoulders, cuffed sleeves and fancy waistcoats.

#47 NJS

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 11:17 PM

Great pictures all of them. A couple of things occur to me: first, the self cuffs on the Edwardian jackets might well have been formed cuffs. Secondly, I have never been sold on the proposition that the men used to go and swap smoking jackets for dress coats after dinner: for a start, the dinners went on for most of the evening and the men generally just stayed at the table with the port etc. but, most compellingly, only the host would wear a smoking jacket and no guest would think of wearing one (at any stage), in someone else's house.

The last thing is that I wish that we could pinpoint more accurately when black tie became the norn with a dinner jacket.
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#48 Gruto

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 12:28 AM

Another example of the Conduit Cut:

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The chest and sleeves look much fuller on the Conduit Cut than on the classic Edwardian cut. The shoulders are much stronger as well. I only see the slim trousers coming close to the old Edwardian cut.

Edited by Gruto, 07 May 2010 - 12:39 AM.

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#49 Sator

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 12:31 AM

Nobody said that the Conduit Cut was Edwardian, or that the New Edwardianism was even historically accurate Edwardian period costume. The point was that the 1960s has a lot in common with the Edwardian era, reflecting the influence of the New Edwardianism. The systems of cutting in the 1960s were also significantly different from the Edwardian era.

#50 carpu65

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 04:20 AM

This comes from Rundschau, 1st October, 1951. The article is about Englische Herrenmode - English Gentlemen's Fashion. The photos are evidently of English (presumably West End) coats, having been provided by Brithis Pictures.

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Very interesting!!!
Is similar to this DB dinner jacket from London West End cut in 1952 (From "Gentry Magazine" 1952)

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#51 greger

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 05:00 AM

So many of the people who wrtie on these clothing forums were born after suit and tie kind of living was gone. They look around and copy the pictures they see and read a few books. What they don't know is what they haven't read of seen, or heard. As a child I listen to men talking about clothes, which is way more than anthing written. Much of what I saw was never photographed and put into books or magazines (some might be in family photo albums). Because of the lack of what was written and few photos were ever put into public areana the "newbies" really lack the depth and the imagination that was common when I was a child. When they see something new it might get included. So many have the herd mentality instead of the enjoyment of clothes. The men of the past talked so freely about clothes, but on the forums these guys are afraid they will do something wrong if they do something new. In the past there were plenty of rules. But, sometimes in layers.

I have been waiting to see black tie like those two above in post #46 and other varitions And, Post #50 has a nice coat in it, too. Some "newbies" trying so hard to follow the rules would imagine these coats all wrong. But seeing pictures where they are pieces of art sets a different tone. Desireable jackets they be.
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#52 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 11:17 AM

As a child I listen to men talking about clothes


This was in the Edwardian period right? :Thinking:
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#53 greger

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 03:21 PM

This was in the Edwardian period right? Posted Image



How young did you say you were? It's about time I switched bodies. Won't say when it all began.... But I am younger than Adam and Noah.

#54 Sator

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 07:46 PM

Some more on what was then the cutting edge tailored fashion coming out of the West End at the time. Although inspired by Edwardian styles (which were only a few decades old, and to them what the 1970s were to us), the actual styles look nothing like those of the 1910s.

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