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National Differences in Tailored Styles - Fact or Fiction?


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#19 NJS

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 12:03 PM

Yes, come on! Put us out of our agony. Gold cups and wooden spoons; whatever, Bring It On!!
<b></b>NJS<b></b>

#20 Sator

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 12:18 PM

Right OK. Time to reveal the answers, then :)

The International Tailor's Congress was held in Scheveningen, Holland at the Palace Hotel in the middle of July. Thirteen different nations were represented. The congress was even addressed by a minister representing Queen Juliane and the Dutch government. Could you imagine that today?

Here are a couple of pictures from the event:

The "front desk":

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Second from left: is President Bardet, Paris; far right Seibold, Munich.

La délégation d'Allemagne:

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The Rundschau editor is on the far right.

One evening they held an event in which the best work from eight countries was put on display at the casino. The countries represented were France, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Greece, England, Belgium, and Holland. Each country chose which work was to represent them and as a result, the standard was apparently "extraordinarily high". However, no prizes were awarded.

The Rundschau reporter noted that it was remarked how wide apart the British and Continental styles had grown. The British style was regarded as being much more conservative - sharply waisted, low shoulders, a tiny armscye, and slim sleeves. To the Continental delegates it looked like a twenty year old fashion plate come to life, and the very picture of the conservatively dressed English gentleman, evoking the image of, I quote, "das Old England der Lords und Brummels". The final example from the British delegation was a dress suit worn with a gold fob chain and a cape lined in red silk. Sadly, they did not publish a photo of that one.

The most "revolutionary" styles apparently came from the Italians who used bolder colours and fancy designs. Their cuts were noted to be a bit easier than the German ones, the lapels a bit narrower and the trousers were without turn ups. One double breasted model "Roman style" was in a yellowish brown with a bold dark stripes. The Italian dinner jacket was regarded as being particular fashionable - made entirely of black Shantung silk, with a wide shawl collar. Ever since the Rococo age, silk was generally regarded as being a "material" for ladies' couture garment making rather than a "cloth" for the bespoke tailor.

Rundschau chose only the following photos for publication:

1. Germany

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2. France

A midnight blue dinner suit with a black silk waistcoat.

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3. Belgium

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4. Italy

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5. Italy

A dinner suit made of Shantung silk.

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6. Britain

A navy blue Chesterfield with velvet collar and turn back sleeve cuffs.

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Overall, the answers suggest that it is quite difficult to pick national differences in cut. The clean lines (bordering on the severe to some) of the German morning coat, however, contrast to the easier cut (plus léger) of the French example. The New Edwardian cuffs on the terribly "echt britisch" Chesterfield gives the game away on the last one. In fact, that Chester would go perfectly well with the old London stockbrocker's rig to be accessorised with tightly furled brolly, briefcase and a copy of the Financial Times:

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#21 greger

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 03:00 PM

Since my foot is usually in my mouth I figured I should give myself a break. The CTDA, here in the US, would yearly have these sort of competition from among its regional districts. Stanley Hosteck said he saw some amazing garments that were passed along from region to region.

LIke how there are no breaks in the trouser legs. A nice clean fall.

#22 Schneidergott

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 02:03 AM

OK, where do these come from?

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"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#23 posaune

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 02:52 AM

Well , bummer, only 2 were the right countries. What makes me real wonder was the italian dinner suit. Never ever I would guess that.

The new ones I would like to be from England.
lg
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#24 Schneidergott

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 04:36 AM

Well , bummer, only 2 were the right countries. What makes me real wonder was the italian dinner suit. Never ever I would guess that.

The new ones I would like to be from England.
lg
heidi



True, the Italian DB suit is far from what I would have thought to be Italian style, let alone "Roman". That's why I said they all look German to me (except the very loose French suit and the uber-british overcoat)!

About the new one: Just look at his hands! ;)

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#25 Schneidergott

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 06:40 AM

Some more:

Posted Image

This one should be easy:

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Just like this one (I really, really like this):

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"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#26 carpu65

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 12:14 PM

OK, where do these come from?

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Italian.

Ah,Ah this is simple for me!
He is one of the most famous Italian fashion model of 50s and 60s,
Carlo di Maggio.
Is also in the cast of "Dolce Vita" of Fellini (as: the producers).
I have tens of pictures of him!

#27 carpu65

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 12:19 PM

center:
The last real American sack suit in the damned XXI century.
J Press.

#28 jukes

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 04:01 PM

Some more:

Posted Image

This one should be easy:

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Just like this one (I really, really like this):

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My guess would be:

1. English, waist suppression, the way the sleeves hang.
2. German, high gorge, clean
3. Italian, low gorge, Breast pocket style, spacing on cuff buttons,(Caracini perhaps?)

Edited by jukes, 19 May 2010 - 04:07 PM.


#29 greger

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 05:55 PM

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The top of that sleeve looks so graceful to me.

The coat looks Italian.

Edited by greger, 19 May 2010 - 05:57 PM.


#30 Nishijin

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 11:02 PM

1 - English
2 - American
3 - the chest pocket looks italian, but the shoulders hint of spanish. As the latter tends to have very "brick" welt pockets, I will try italian.


BTW, I've been looking for pictures of greek tailors, and did not find any. Would someone have something ?
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Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
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#31 Schneidergott

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 02:28 AM

1 - English
2 - American
3 - the chest pocket looks italian, but the shoulders hint of spanish. As the latter tends to have very "brick" welt pockets, I will try italian.


BTW, I've been looking for pictures of greek tailors, and did not find any. Would someone have something ?



There is a LL member from Greece who posted some pictures. yalabis (?) was the name, I think.

Carpu already let the cat out of the bag, so to speak. The B&W pictures are Italian, so is the last of the following three (Mimmo Siviglia). 2nd one is J. Press!

The first one is from a former British colony, Australia (J.H. Cutler)!

Edited by Schneidergott, 20 May 2010 - 02:30 AM.

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#32 Schneidergott

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 04:38 AM

A tricky one:

Posted Image

:Nail Biting:

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#33 Schneidergott

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 04:49 AM

BTW, I've been looking for pictures of greek tailors, and did not find any. Would someone have something ?



This is yialabis' thread!

There must be a pic of his tailor in his work shop, too! Just don't know where... :sorry:

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#34 Sator

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 10:55 AM

OK, it's time for round two of "guess where I'm from". These come from Das Schneiderhandwerk, January 1963:

1.

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2.

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3.

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4.

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5.

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#35 Gruto

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 04:27 PM

1) Italy
2) England
3) France
4) Germany
5) Austria
--
The Journal of Style

#36 Schneidergott

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 01:26 AM

3) Italy
4) Germany (or at least a German speaking country)


All the other ones are too hard to tell. In the 50's, 60's and 70's the general silhouettes were quite similar in Europe (At least I think they were). Add to that a much larger number of bespoke tailors, all with different influences, and you'll have a hard time to tell which garment is from which country!

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.





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