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A Golden Age of Italian Tailoring: Galliano Caraceni


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#19 murtadza

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 04:45 PM

The images are from the book: Sarti d'Abrruzzo (The Abruzzi tailors), which is out of print and hard to find, except here!
It seems the author got the date wrong, it says 30's in the book.

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Another Caraceni?

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Mr.Scheidergott,

I got mine through Abe Books.

Murtadza

#20 carpu65

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 05:34 AM

Another Caraceni?

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Difficult to said.
Fairbanks Sr and Jr had many tailors.
Caraceni,Huntsman,Eddie Schmidt of Los Angeles (future Schmidt & Galluppo,
the tailor of Fred Astaire,Clark Gable,William Powell),and many others.
The suits in the pictures are probably from London.

P.S.

Some other picture:

Domenico Caraceni in 1918 (his first tailorshop is open in 1915)
Note the cut of the suit;the drape is still far:

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Early 50s
Galliano Caraceni for Clifton Webb and Douglas Fairbanks Jr

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And Now go in Milan:
1985,Mario Caraceni (the son of Augusto) & Mario Pozzi for Sergio Loro Piana
A wonderfull transformable double breasted.

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Edited by carpu65, 20 May 2010 - 05:38 AM.


#21 carpu65

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 06:06 AM

In old times was said that Huntsman and Caraceni had a close cut and silhouette.
Gianni Agnelli was also a Huntsman client,and Douglas Fairbanks (Sr and Jr) too.
I have fear that (despite the price)today is not so.

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#22 Schneidergott

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 06:16 AM

In old times was said that Huntsman and Caraceni had a close cut and silhouette.
Gianni Agnelli was also a Huntsman client,and Douglas Fairbanks (Sr and Jr) too.
I have fear that (despite the price)today is not so.

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By "close" do you mean "similar"?

In either case it seems that many British tailors have stopped evolving their cut, with mostly the ultra-conservative surviving.
That Huntsman (the hat plus the pinstripes, perhaps?) looks very 30's to me. The Caraceni is what you called "timeless"!

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#23 Schneidergott

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 06:19 AM

By the way: jefferyD is dissecting a 1998 Caraceni from Milano.
I'm curious what the inside does look like. The outside already shows extraordinary finishing skills!

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#24 carpu65

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 01:41 PM

Yes,for "close" i mean similar.

This is Douglas Fairbanks Jr whit a Huntsman coat in 1950;
despite the tiny revers is quite similar to a Caraceni coat.
And i have another picture of Sir Lawrence Olivier in a Huntsman Double Breasted
very similar at an transformable DB of Caraceni.

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Today seems that the old quality is gone (but prices are high as never).

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I quote Sator:

It is nothing that unusual at all. Any good tailor can do that. There is moderately strong waist suppression, the lapels are medium width with only a modest amount of belly. The model is proportionate and the amount of overlap at front is moderate and in keeping with his physique. There is modest shoulder padding, the shoulder lightly padded, and little touch of roping in the sleeve cap. You can tell they have used moderate structure in the chest to give it a bit of fullness.

The one big fault is that the stripes fail to run parallel to the lapel edge (see red arrow in third picture). Not good, and it should not have been allowed out of the store like that. However, they seemed to have managed to pattern match at the shoulders (which is not necessary).


P.S.
The DB above in my opinion is not much 30s.
In 30s the space between buttons was more large (without that the coat was more closed on shirt and tie),
and the revers are more large.
In modern British bespoke the DB coats have buttons very close,and revers non much larges.
the 30s coat,for me was more similar to this of Pirozzi,a Napolitan tailor (less expansive of Huntsman).

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Another Double Breasted similar to those of 30s is this of another Napolitan,Giuseppe Panico.

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Back to Caraceni i want show a fantastic transformable Double Breasted,similar to those of Caraceni.
The picture is shot in New York in 1943:

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And this is a nice tranformable DB cut by Duhnnill in New York in 1955.

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Remember to me the good coats of the 90s Ralph Lauren.

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Edited by carpu65, 21 May 2010 - 12:17 AM.


#25 carpu65

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 12:31 AM

Gianni Campagna is a tailor that have buy the firm "Domenico Caraceni of Piazza San Babila" in Milan.
This tailorshop was of the nephews of Augusto,Simonetta and Maria Grazia with some old good cutter.
(Note that the "right" Caraceni in Milan is "Mario Caraceni & Mario Pozzi").
Campagna that is a good buisnessman but a average tailor,is here with an old coat of
Gianni Agnelli from Tommy & Giulio Caraceni (on the right)
and that he think is "the clone" (on the left) ,but that is only an horrible pin strip bathrobe.

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#26 Schneidergott

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 02:41 AM

He is one of the most obese Italian men I have ever seen... :spiteful:

His copy somehow lacks "charisma" (for a want of a better word). The lapels are just a tad too wide and too high.
Which only proofs once again how difficult the tailor's job is.
I have a picture of an unfinished Caraceni suit for Agnelli somewhere. It seems to have quite a bit of structure in it...

Pirozzi is the tailor of quite a number of cavallieri delle nove porte, right? I find the coats he is wearing a bit tight, too much a second skin. But that is perhaps he's busy making for others. The Gran Maestro is a customer as well and he likes the 30's style, too. The only thing I find odd are the waterfall sleeves in his coats. Kind of ruins the otherwise nice, clean lines. But maybe that is just me... :Thinking:

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#27 carpu65

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 10:22 AM

Somewhere Pirozzi have a too much squared line ("Linea dorica",because recalls the massive doric column).

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But i don't think that he is thight.

Pirozzi can make also a more light coat,like this (a Napolitan interpretation of an 60s English coat,
for this gentleman,Daniele Savarč, that loves the British 60s

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Sincerly i prefer this coat (I like much) ,and for the double breasted i like silhouette like that of Panico (see above).



For the 30s, well almost all the Italian "connaisseurs" loves the 30s.

I like many aspects of the 30s men fashions,but the my personal favourite period are the 50s and early 60s
(in Italy off course).

beautifull,classic,harmonious suits like this:

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Or this:

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Edited by carpu65, 21 May 2010 - 10:29 AM.


#28 greger

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 02:11 PM

Is the number two button inside buttoned?

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Nice coat. The tailor who made this is really good. The cutter is not bad either. Notice how the coat shoulders stick out.

#29 carpu65

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 12:18 AM

Yes.
The button two inside is buttoned.
This coat is not a Kent double breasted with only the lower couple of buttons working.
This is a six buttons double breasted with tranformable revers.
You can buttoned the first couple or the lower couple of buttons,
or the last button on the coat and the button two inside.

#30 murtadza

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 02:18 PM

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[/quote]

Handsome coat,is it a Caraceni?

Murtadza

#31 murtadza

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 02:31 PM

Edward VIII (future Duke of Windsor) with a not tranformable double breasted
(note like the lapel buttoned at low couple don't roll at all)

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Edward VIII with a transformable double breasted (the lapel roll perfectlly).
Is this suit an Caraceni?

mr.Carpu,

I like to say on the HRH's trousers.In the first picture the trousers looks baggy yet the line are clean and drapes
unrippled.the second are very much different though it has the same line and drapes.

Who's the Italian masters for trousers from the 30's,50's and current.Your aspiring photos and illustrations are
highly appreciated.

murtadza
Are know some secretly visit of Domenico Caraceni to Edward in London.

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#32 carpu65

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 05:14 AM

[quote name='murtadza' date='23 May 2010 - 02:18 PM' timestamp='1274588302' post='9540']
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[/quote]

Handsome coat,is it a Caraceni?

Murtadza
[/quote]
No,
Is a wonderfull Cifonelli (of Rome),cut in 1958.

#33 Schneidergott

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 12:18 AM

This is the picture of an Agnelli coat (at least the poster claimed it was for Agnelli) I was talking about. The coat sure has some structure in it and has more basting stitches on the outside than a finished coat of a certain iconic SR firm has proper stitches on the inside...

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I am not too fond of the lapel's peaks to go up that high (almost touching the shoulder seam), but the rest looks great.

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#34 carpu65

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 05:25 AM

Strange.
Generally the Caraceni lapel's peaks are not so high.
Is sure that is a Tommy & Giulio, or a Mario Caraceni coat for Gianni Agnelli and not a Sciamāt http://www.sciamat.com/
coat for Lapo Elkan,the Agnelli nephew?
Here a Sciamāt coat:

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#35 Schneidergott

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 05:58 AM

Strange.
Generally the Caraceni lapel's peaks are not so high.
Is sure that is a Tommy & Giulio, or a Mario Caraceni coat for Gianni Agnelli and not a Sciamāt http://www.sciamat.com/
coat for Lapo Elkan,the Agnelli nephew?
Here a Sciamāt coat:

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I don't recall it exactly, but it said "Agnelli" without mentioning the maker. Given the similar style and position of the stitches it could easily be a Sciamat!

Here is a fashion drawing from 1939 Rundschau. I'm not to happy with those square shoulders, though... But they were the fashion in those days!

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"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#36 carpu65

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 12:44 PM

I don't recall it exactly, but it said "Agnelli" without mentioning the maker. Given the similar style and position of the stitches it could easily be a Sciamat!

Is a Sciāmat;
another "Agnelli replica suit".
http://sciamat.wordpress.com/page/20/
Caraceni is classic.
Sciāmat is "baroque"...no.. "Rocōcō" is the right term.




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