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Sleeve construction


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#1 Schneidergott

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 09:32 PM

This is likely old news to the masters, so I figured I put this in the apprentice cutter forum.

It's a simple and there fore fast sleeve construction, based on the Rundschau system. It has no seam allowances included.

All you need are 3 basic measurements, 2 of the final armhole, plus the sleeve length.

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Like shown in the picture you need to measure from the final shoulder/armhole seam down to the deepest point of the armhole (finished seam). Also measure the scye width (use front and back sleeve pitch for that)

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You start with a square at point 1, measuring the sleeve length down to point 2 and the scye diameter + 5 to 6cm (and up to 7cm, amount depends mostly on the fabric. Softer fabrics allow for more width) to point 3.

On the length line mark point 4 (scye depth minus 0,5cm)
Square points 2 and 4 to the right (point 8) and down from 3. From 3 measure 5 to 6cm down (point 7).

From point 2 measure 2 or 3cm up (I personally prefer 2cm) to get point 5.

Point 6 is ½ of 4 to 5 minus 1cm. Square to right to get point 9.

From point 5 measure ½ of your desired hand width to get point 10 on the sleeve length line.

Mark Äe (front sleeve pitch), measuring from point 4 upwards. The amount is 0,5cm less than the distance of scye depth line to the Äe in the front armhole.

From 3 to 11 is ½ of 3 to 1 plus 1cm. Square down to get point 12. From 12 mark 1 to 2cm to the left for point 13.

Point 14 is 4cm from 7. Connect 14 and 13.

6 to 6a is 1,5 to 2 cm. For the CF of the sleeve connect Äe, 6a and 5.
Mark ½ of 1 to 11 and connect with Äe, mark ½ of that line and connect with 11.
Connect 7 with 11.
Also connect points 9 and 10, 9a and 10.

Again the final construction:

Posted Image

Depending on your taste and the cloth's pattern you might like to use it as a basis for a 50/50 sleeve.

Sadly none of my programs allows to draw curves, but simply shape the sleeve crown to get a final shape. You can also move the sleeve's CF line to hide the seam a bit. To do so just move the seam line of the under sleeve to the right, parallel to the CF line. Do the same with the upper sleeve to the left.

For further instructions see this thread on sleeves(for saving this I'm very grateful to Nishijin): http://www.cutterand...rch=1

Known issues:

For the sleeve in the following pictures I used the wider measurements, which got me a sleeve with quite a bit of roping, due to the width and length in the crown.
Unless you like this effect (and you use a soft fabric), my advice would be to use the measurements given in the diagram. Those should make this method of construction more applicable for most of the regular fabrics.

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In this rear shot you can see how much width is in the crown. This makes the sleeve a quite comfortable one with a bigger range of movement.

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Also, while this method works fine with "decently" cut armholes, it may not give satisfying results when used for RTW coats with weirdly shaped armholes (deep and narrow). Without further corrections of the coat's armhole the crown will be very pointy and hard to set in.

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"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#2 Schneidergott

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 10:50 PM

The corrected sleeve (applying the smaller widths):

Posted Image

Posted Image

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  • marieamorim likes this

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#3 Martin Stall

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 11:18 PM

Does this work best with flower pattern cloths? :Hypnotized: Still waiting for the package, you know.
Sure, I believe your work rocks, but... have you considered, how are you going to sell that stuff?

http: under construction...

#4 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 11:30 PM

If you come back for a visit SG you HAVE to wear this!
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#5 Martin Stall

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 11:37 PM

Haha! With the amount of work he's putting into it, it's going to end up fitting perfectly. Pity it's fused :girl_devil:
Sure, I believe your work rocks, but... have you considered, how are you going to sell that stuff?

http: under construction...

#6 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 12:04 AM

Well the Germans do nothing Half-arsed, so even their toiles are better constructed than somes final work :)
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#7 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 12:05 AM

Could you show us how you set your sleeves? I hate setting sleeves and any easier or better way is appreciated
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#8 Martin Stall

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 12:06 AM

Me?
Sure, I believe your work rocks, but... have you considered, how are you going to sell that stuff?

http: under construction...

#9 Nishijin

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 12:07 AM

Is it fused ? I thought there was simply nothing, just the fabric holding straight by itself...

I can't wait to see the finished coat, these flowers are soooo cool :give_rose: I have to find something like that for myself. This might be a proof that when the cut and fit is great, the cloth can be rubbish :Big Grin:



By the way, great tutorial on sleeves.
http://www.paulgrassart.com

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
Mark Twain

#10 Schneidergott

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 01:46 AM

@Jason: There is a post of mine about setting sleeves. You should be able to find it in the (apprentices?) forum...

The coat is German size 50 (that is 100cm chest girth) and therefore a little bit too tight in certain areas. The only fusing I used is for the bridle, neck and armhole. There is no sense in cutting a (more or less) precise sleeve and then stretch and ruin the armhole by stretching it when setting a sleeve.

I do think, though, that one could wear this in certain regions of the western hemisphere without being laughed at, even in the US.
Or perhaps especially in the US, since taste and a sense of fit is greatly lacking, or so it seems. :spiteful: I just call it the latest Italian fashion... :sorcerer:
In the UK it may pass as "eccentric"! :Big Grin: Blue shirt, regimental tie and some twill trousers and one would be good to go.

What matters most is the fact that this method actually works quite well. It took me about 6 hours to prepare the post, but only 30 minutes to draft, cut and set the sleeve(s)!

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#11 Nishijin

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 03:19 AM

only 30 minutes to draft, cut and set the sleeve(s)!

:shock: :im Not Worthy:

I think I need to visit you... Would you take a sleeve apprentice ?
http://www.paulgrassart.com

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
Mark Twain

#12 Schneidergott

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 04:22 AM

:shock: :im Not Worthy:

I think I need to visit you... Would you take a sleeve apprentice ?



That's 30 minutes for a sleeve I cut according to my requirements. Back at work it takes me ages to get a sleeve back in. :Cry:
Both our makers of MTM cut weird sleeves, each at the opposite end of the "sleeve spectrum". We often have to take the upper part of the sleeve apart to get it back in. But once the sleeve's cut/shape is ruined it's even harder.
Try to cut a decent sleeve that will fit into this armhole:

Posted Image

This draft I showed is very fast to do, like 10 minutes (even with the details like vents and such). It mostly depends on the cutters experience how much he/she adds to the basic measurements (scye width plus 5 to 7cm). In either case you should get a decent sleeve you can work with.

I found this:

Posted Image

Maybe we can use it instead of :im Not Worthy: ?

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#13 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 04:30 AM

wow what a scye? Seriously D you need to go into business for yourself or hurry and move to Italia and work. Are my eyes decieving me or is the collar a little wonky as well?
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#14 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 04:32 AM

Actually, I'll host a seminar here in Helland, and you can be the guest speaker. 100 euros a head per module or 1000 euros for the whole weekend*






* Guest speaker may not actually show, no refunds

Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#15 Schneidergott

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 06:15 AM

As you can see from the chalk lines, the whole coat wasn't top notch in the fitting well sector.

I think with the information displayed you can run seminars on your own... (BTW, I knew that Scots aren't big spenders, but such greed surprises me... :shock: )

Please try this method for yourself (next time you cut a coat, that is) and let me know if it worked.

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#16 Martin Stall

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 06:20 AM

Posted Image



Hey SG, is that armhole for a grown-on sleeve?
Sure, I believe your work rocks, but... have you considered, how are you going to sell that stuff?

http: under construction...

#17 posaune

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 06:32 AM

I did not trust my eyes!!! How does a sleeve look, which will go into that armhole! It would be nice if you are able to let us see how the pattern looks you came up to.

Lg
posaune

#18 jukes

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 06:46 AM

I could climb through that armhole.




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