Jump to content


Photo

Construction: pleated back


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
52 replies to this topic

#1 BrianW

BrianW

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 20 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Miami

Posted 29 June 2010 - 03:08 AM

I wanted to ask kindly if someone could offer a brief rundown of how to construct a pleated back for a coat. I don't know if this qualifies as a pleated 'vent' or just a pleat. I apologize I don't have a picture or the vocabulary to indicate exactly what I'm after. But essentially the vent is a pleat; the back pieces meet flush below the waist, and the pleat is beneath. I feel like there is inevitably a horizontal seam in the back pieces at the waist to accommodate this. Maybe I'm wrong on that, it's not critical to me.

I have a length of tweed from Huddersfield that I want to make into a coat with this feature.

If anyone saw the newer Sherlock Holmes movie, that's where the idea came from. Jude Law in the second half of the movie has a gray with red check (if I remember right) coat with a pleated vent. I can't find screen caps out there to show you all.

I see plenty of patterns on here with pleats, but it's the construction part that I want to understand before I move ahead.

Thanks.

Edited by BrianW, 29 June 2010 - 03:10 AM.


#2 Schneidergott

Schneidergott

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,681 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland

Posted 29 June 2010 - 04:32 AM

Are you talking about this one?

Posted Image

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#3 J. Maclochlainn

J. Maclochlainn

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,129 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 June 2010 - 05:32 AM

Just your basic morning coat. I must say though the pleats are hideous and the back piece is cut more akin to an 1840's style rather than the higher shoulder slope military style of the late 1880's. I need to start teaching historical costume tailoring because this sucks.
Before answering your Q, what experience do you have in tailoring?
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#4 BrianW

BrianW

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 20 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Miami

Posted 29 June 2010 - 06:48 AM

Are you talking about this one?


Wow. Good find.

That may be it. I remember it differently, of course, as my memory has a mind of its own. It flashed pretty quick in the movie too. I definitely don't recall the back princess seam. Those look more like action pleats, where they're attached at the very bottom. Maybe I remembered the fabric of that coat and the pleat of another in that movie. Sorry for the confusion.

Anyway, I wanted to try something different from the typical vent. I'm looking for an outdoor coat, not a dress coat. The picture of the Poole Norfolk inspired me (vent notwithstanding), but I'm not about to try to replicate that. Any thoughts?

J., this is all home stuff. I'm in the middle of making my 5th jacket for myself. I'm getting the mechanics of it all down now. The pattern manipulation and fitting are still a bit elusive. I've also made a few skirts/dresses with pleats for my girls. Making a pleat isn't hard. But I can't help but think there is a clever way to do it here; or a 'right' way.

#5 J. Maclochlainn

J. Maclochlainn

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,129 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 June 2010 - 07:55 AM

Well, the pleats in a body coat are more of a "false" pleat or "expansion" pleat and to do it properly some manipulation of fabric with the iron must be necessitated. I must step back for a moment to await word from Sator as I'm not sure if this subject is under the Anti-costume act covered under section 22 of the "Costuming brings the wrong sort" bill drafted by Sator and passed 358 yay- 2 nay. :) The way I do it is a lot more "old school" and not done any more, so may not be considered applicable to modern tailoring.

On the Norfolk, there are many options you can take and they all look good. You can factor in working pleats in the draught, you can make strapping to simulate the pleats, you can do a skirted Norfolk with only half having pleats or strapping it's a wonderful garment to explore all it's variety. I warn you though, I feel a Norfolk is a little on the advanced side, especially if you consider factoring in proper pleats.
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#6 Schneidergott

Schneidergott

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,681 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland

Posted 29 June 2010 - 08:00 AM

Well, Jude Law wore another jacket in that movie, but they never show the back long and clear enough to make a screenshot. The vent looks very similar, though.

You could easily "cheat" on this one and make it a pleat. Which likely is what they have done here.

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#7 Schneidergott

Schneidergott

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,681 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland

Posted 29 June 2010 - 08:39 AM

Posted Image

Posted Image

This one has clearly a vent. I just know the German term "Hakenschlitz", which is the one Jason mentioned.

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#8 J. Maclochlainn

J. Maclochlainn

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,129 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 June 2010 - 08:43 AM

You could easily "cheat" on this one and make it a pleat. Which likely is what they have done here.


And it will look like poop, just like the one they did :p

Looking at it closely they did try to do a proper "expansion" pleat, but failed. It is important when working this pleat to form a bit of round with the iron. The only way to cheat, is by fulling the material onto the stay tape and then set the round by pressing the fullness out, thus forming the posteriorus roundus at the back 1/3rd of the skirt see how flat it is. Also judging by the drag in the skirt they didn't work any fullness for the hip either.
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#9 J. Maclochlainn

J. Maclochlainn

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,129 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 June 2010 - 08:46 AM

I think in English it used to be called a "Hook Vent" not sure of the modern name
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#10 Nishijin

Nishijin

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,704 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Paris, France.
  • Interests:Mainly tailoring it seems, but my friends know better...

Posted 29 June 2010 - 08:48 AM

The coat found by Schneidergott is clealy made the same way as a morning coat (though the skirt is shaped differently from the ones we are used to see at weddings - it is more akind the the hunt morning coat). The making of a morning coat, including the vent and the back pleats, is described here :
http://www.cutterand...p?showtopic=361


Making a box pleat instead of a center vent is easy (or instead of side vents, either). I do not know if there is a "rigth" way to make it, as in tailoring there are frequently many way to do things. If this is what you are looking for, I'll making drawings tomorrow. There is no need for a waist seam, no more than for a vent, which making is quite similar.

Edited by Nishijin, 29 June 2010 - 08:50 AM.

http://www.paulgrassart.com

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
Mark Twain

#11 J. Maclochlainn

J. Maclochlainn

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,129 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 June 2010 - 08:57 AM

Nope, that's the typical Business/ Walking Morning skirt. The more radically cut away skirts most are familiar with, whilst it had been around since the newmarket of the 1850's, it really didn't become the popular style until the mid 80's when the Morning coat started getting "dressy". That's when we see a shift in all the systems from a moderate cut away with rounded quarters and the skirt you speak of. None the less the rounded style as above stayed fashionable for Morning Coats of the working to mid class and typically if a Morning coat has hip pockets they have this skirt.

Nishijin, of course there is a "right way"... My way :p
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#12 Nishijin

Nishijin

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,704 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Paris, France.
  • Interests:Mainly tailoring it seems, but my friends know better...

Posted 29 June 2010 - 09:12 AM

My dear scottish tailor, I was simply trying to set some landmarks intellegible with a contemporary knowledge. Historically speaking, you are of course right. Sadly, very few people today remember of the walking morning coat, and we have no documentation to point here on C&T. That is why I refered to the hunt morning coat, as it is documented here, even if it is not the same garment.

BTW, I'll be in your first class when you start a course upon historical tailoring.
http://www.paulgrassart.com

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
Mark Twain

#13 J. Maclochlainn

J. Maclochlainn

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,129 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 June 2010 - 09:23 AM

Sadly, very few people today remember of the walking morning coat


:Hmmmph: I guess I need to make one for everyone on the forum, so we can all be cool and stylish once more :) I'll even make one with drape, extra wide revers and american shoulders for Sator :rofl:
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#14 J. Maclochlainn

J. Maclochlainn

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,129 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 June 2010 - 09:30 AM

Soz all, super tired didn't mean to troll up the subject. Useful info coming soonerish
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#15 Nishijin

Nishijin

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,704 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Paris, France.
  • Interests:Mainly tailoring it seems, but my friends know better...

Posted 29 June 2010 - 09:32 AM

Actually, I think this could come back in fashion as "sport jackets" and country garments. I'm very tempted to make one for me one day (I need time, same as everybody...), and I know some people who might be interested too. Of course, not the historical model, but I'm sure it can be "modernised" in a good way, just as a "formal" morning coat can be modern.
http://www.paulgrassart.com

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
Mark Twain

#16 J. Maclochlainn

J. Maclochlainn

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,129 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 June 2010 - 09:34 AM

I want to see the Oxonian come back into style! I'm going to make me one as soon as the final edits are over.

Actually! I think this would be a good coat and kind of meet what you are looking for. Picture a Morning coat as above, but without a waist seam. Yes, think of a lounge forepart with a side body and back of a morning coat. It's an awesome coat, I might make it my life's ambition to bring it back.

Edited by J. Maclochlainn, 29 June 2010 - 10:02 AM.

Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#17 BrianW

BrianW

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 20 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Miami

Posted 29 June 2010 - 11:35 AM

Ok, not to unhijack my thread from the discussion of Oxonian, for which an Internet image search returns many bicycling pictures, but ... 8^)

I slapped together a demo of what my mind has conceived. Maybe I've created something new and totally unworkable. But I simply took a rectangle, sewed it to either side of the backs, folded it behind and sewed the top. The chalk line indicates the waist.

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

I can see how it'll work, and yet it seems pretty flimsy.

Kinda looks like it needs a belt, if I do it this way.

#18 J. Maclochlainn

J. Maclochlainn

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,129 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 June 2010 - 11:53 AM

Get used to the hijacks, tangents are our speciality :)

What exactly are you trying to do with this inverse box pleat, and what sort of garment would this go to?
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users