Jump to content


Photo

Creative Black Tie


  • Please log in to reply
51 replies to this topic

#1 I.Brackley

I.Brackley

    Apprentice

  • Senior Apprentice
  • PipPip
  • 270 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario, Canada
  • Interests:History, art theory, subculture anthropology

Posted 24 August 2010 - 02:11 PM

So I was over at Black Tie Guide ( http://www.blacktieg....com/index.html ), perusing the history and classic alternative pages when I came into the section dealing with that late 1980's-90's formalwear chimera known alternately as "creative black tie" or "whimsical formal" or "alternative formal" and I do recall seeing some interesting mutations back in those days, some more interesting and tasteful than others to be sure.

I, for one, am cautiously in favour of the concept. Principally as it's an avenue for both tailors and customers to experiment with novelty. Daily street wear used to allow this (e.g. the zoot suit, Teddy boy drape jacket, the mod suit etc) but as youthful, subcultural tailor-made clothing is with us no more, it would appear that eveningwear is the most promising avenue for exciting innovation.
The obvious critique of the concept is that is introducing "feminine" patterns of habit and dressing to the tradionally very different philosophical landscape of men's formalwear. The ultimate pitfall being that a creative black tie devotee may end up wearing the male version of this:

Posted Image

Yikes.

So what does everyone else think? How broad a palate would you consider for formal eveningwear? Minor changes on the theme or can more radical departures be done without offending taste or being novel for novelty's sake alone?

Discuss.







(I just know that oft-used, "this-is-why-fashion-designers-are-rubbish" picture of the catwalk model with the shiny metalic suit paired with a ballet tu-tu will make an appearance, I just know it....)
"The possibilities that exist in the portrayal of personality constitute the strongest, and in fact the only unanswerable argument for the supremacy of Custom Tailoring"

-F.T. Croonborg, c. 1917

#2 culverwood

culverwood

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 80 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London

Posted 24 August 2010 - 07:06 PM

So what does everyone else think? How broad a palate would you consider for formal eveningwear? Minor changes on the theme or can more radical departures be done without offending taste or being novel for novelty's sake alone?


Lets start by saying I take it you mean black tie as formal evening wear, I know there are some who would say that title equals white tie.

I would consider a much broader palate than most. Within the black jacket and trouser, white shirt, black shoes and black bow tie there is a very broad spectrum of possibilities. If you stuck to the formulaic single button, peak lapel, shirt with studs, patent shoes that the forums trot out the world would be a much more boring place. I will never go back top the velvet collars and ties and ruffled blue shirts I used to wear with my blue DJ in the 70's but having come from that end of the spectrum I see a place for self expression in what one wears. I remember an article in an early issue of Rake with some fetching 60's coloured DJs and I bet Sator can dig some up from his archive, at the right occasion in the Summer I would be happy to wear one.

#3 Lewis Davies

Lewis Davies

    Apprentice

  • Super Pro
  • PipPip
  • 302 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 August 2010 - 11:27 PM

design as a medium is very very useful
there are good and bad tailor and good and bad designers

#4 Sator

Sator

    Administrator

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,998 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney, Australia

Posted 25 August 2010 - 11:33 AM

I also agree that there is scope for tasteful creativity, with a stress on the word tasteful. I like details likes curved panels on a dinner coat. Mostly importantly, execution is everything.

#5 Nigel

Nigel

    Apprentice

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 102 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London
  • Interests:Restoring old buildings
    Crafts, including hand sewing
    Family History

Posted 25 August 2010 - 04:04 PM

I will never go back top the velvet collars and ties and ruffled blue shirts I used to wear with my blue DJ in the 70's


Following the English tradition of wearing scruffy hand-me-downs I'm afraid to say that my (infrequent) outings in a dinner jacket these days are usually in a velvet collared and piped lapel one that my father bought in the 1970s as this is the only one in my wardrobe that fits me. I draw the line at ruffled shirts and velvet ties though; I wear it with a marcella shirt and black silk tie. The combination looks OK in a strange way, but the quality of the jacket is pretty dire and I really need a new one. For one to two outings a year however the expense hardly seems justified.

#6 I.Brackley

I.Brackley

    Apprentice

  • Senior Apprentice
  • PipPip
  • 270 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario, Canada
  • Interests:History, art theory, subculture anthropology

Posted 26 August 2010 - 05:31 AM

I also agree that there is scope for tasteful creativity, with a stress on the word tasteful. I like details likes curve panels on a dinner coat. Mostly importantly, execution is everything.


Let's up the ante a little, shall we?

Let's see some pictures of creative black tie (or more broadly speaking evening formal-ish) in action, examples leaning towards what people think are credits to the concept.

I'll start the ball rolling with this selection from Black Tie Guide's "Hall of Shame"

Posted Image

Crowe is repremanded for eschewing a more conventional bow tie in favour of a bit of string which I'm not a fan of but I am interested in the braiding detail around the buttons. Perhaps they extend a touch high (the "show" ones north of the top button may be overdoing it) but it strikes me as the sort of quiet personalization that, in the evening and corresponding low light wouldn't be overpowering or loud.
In the end it's a risk but a calculated one. Here the gestalt is wrecked by one risk too many (i.e. the neckwear)

Edited by I.Brackley, 26 August 2010 - 08:45 AM.

"The possibilities that exist in the portrayal of personality constitute the strongest, and in fact the only unanswerable argument for the supremacy of Custom Tailoring"

-F.T. Croonborg, c. 1917

#7 Sator

Sator

    Administrator

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,998 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney, Australia

Posted 26 August 2010 - 11:27 AM

Personally, I don't find Crowe looks all that bad. Those string type of bow ties actually go back a long way. You see them worn with evening dress in Victorian fashion plates, and from time to time in photos and films throughout the 20th century. You can argue that it's a bit busy when you add in the coat with the frogging of the sort you'd usually see on military uniform mess jackets rather than on a reefer type of coat. I've seen plenty worse than this.

#8 Atgemis

Atgemis

    Umsie

  • Professional
  • Pip
  • 82 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:sydney
  • Interests:cycling, eating, clothing

Posted 28 August 2010 - 04:20 PM

Let's up the ante a little, shall we?

Let's see some pictures of creative black tie (or more broadly speaking evening formal-ish) in action, examples leaning towards what people think are credits to the concept.

I'll start the ball rolling with this selection from Black Tie Guide's "Hall of Shame"

Posted Image

Crowe is repremanded for eschewing a more conventional bow tie in favour of a bit of string which I'm not a fan of but I am interested in the braiding detail around the buttons. Perhaps they extend a touch high (the "show" ones north of the top button may be overdoing it) but it strikes me as the sort of quiet personalization that, in the evening and corresponding low light wouldn't be overpowering or loud.
In the end it's a risk but a calculated one. Here the gestalt is wrecked by one risk too many (i.e. the neckwear)


THAT IS GARISH!

#9 NJS

NJS

    Journeyman

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 376 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South America

Posted 01 September 2010 - 04:50 AM

What's Crowe got a gong for?
<b></b>NJS<b></b>

#10 Artist's Eye

Artist's Eye

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 54 posts

Posted 01 September 2010 - 07:03 AM

What's Crowe got a gong for?


In as much as I can recall, I think it was his father's and he was wearing it in memory of him.

#11 Artist's Eye

Artist's Eye

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 54 posts

Posted 01 September 2010 - 07:13 AM


Posted Image

Crowe is repremanded for eschewing a more conventional bow tie in favour of a bit of string which I'm not a fan of but I am interested in the braiding detail around the buttons. (i.e. the neckwear)


I think the spare string bow is at odds with the frogging, which to my eye asks for something more leaning towards the cravat end of bow ties (perhaps even a white one?).

Edited by Artist's Eye, 01 September 2010 - 07:14 AM.


#12 I.Brackley

I.Brackley

    Apprentice

  • Senior Apprentice
  • PipPip
  • 270 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario, Canada
  • Interests:History, art theory, subculture anthropology

Posted 01 September 2010 - 02:17 PM

I think the spare string bow is at odds with the frogging, which to my eye asks for something more leaning towards the cravat end of bow ties (perhaps even a white one?).



Some form of cravate idea is interesting, this photo does appear to be during the day (could be wrong)so that could mesh.
But a white bow tie with anything less than Full Evening Dress (i.e. "tails", tailcoat, swallow-tailed coat, etc) is not a place one wants to go lightly. :no: I'm not saying it shouldn't be regarded and weighed as an option, just that one can expect a fair amount of pooh-poohing, President Obama got just that over his dress for the inagural ball. It's quite a direct counterpoint to the remnants of long-held protocol, perhaps too direct?
Alternately perhaps it's time white bow ties can be cycled back into use beyond the limited niche of traditional White Tie?
"The possibilities that exist in the portrayal of personality constitute the strongest, and in fact the only unanswerable argument for the supremacy of Custom Tailoring"

-F.T. Croonborg, c. 1917

#13 Atgemis

Atgemis

    Umsie

  • Professional
  • Pip
  • 82 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:sydney
  • Interests:cycling, eating, clothing

Posted 08 September 2010 - 11:39 AM

Let's up the ante a little, shall we?


I don't know why but I always found this Seth Rogen one WRONG. The peaked lapel doesn't really go with velvet. I feel that it looks much better with a shawl collar and this always struck me as very ARRIVE (don't have a French keyboard)
Posted Image

Edited by Atgemis, 08 September 2010 - 11:39 AM.


#14 Atgemis

Atgemis

    Umsie

  • Professional
  • Pip
  • 82 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:sydney
  • Interests:cycling, eating, clothing

Posted 08 September 2010 - 11:43 AM

Let's up the ante a little, shall we?


I loathe this look. Notched lapel black suit with a black tie. I just find it so overdone and boring.
Posted Image

#15 Atgemis

Atgemis

    Umsie

  • Professional
  • Pip
  • 82 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:sydney
  • Interests:cycling, eating, clothing

Posted 08 September 2010 - 11:46 AM

Thoughts on this one? I think this is benchmark stock standard from which creative should be referenced from...
Posted Image

#16 Atgemis

Atgemis

    Umsie

  • Professional
  • Pip
  • 82 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:sydney
  • Interests:cycling, eating, clothing

Posted 08 September 2010 - 11:49 AM

An absolute shocker from Daniel Day Lewis. The colours don't go, the shoes are just unbelievably wrong, the red piping on the lapel is dull and towards crimson.... I hate this look.
Posted Image

#17 Atgemis

Atgemis

    Umsie

  • Professional
  • Pip
  • 82 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:sydney
  • Interests:cycling, eating, clothing

Posted 08 September 2010 - 01:46 PM

thoughts? I quite like this
Posted Image

Edited by Atgemis, 08 September 2010 - 01:46 PM.


#18 I.Brackley

I.Brackley

    Apprentice

  • Senior Apprentice
  • PipPip
  • 270 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario, Canada
  • Interests:History, art theory, subculture anthropology

Posted 08 September 2010 - 01:54 PM

An absolute shocker from Daniel Day Lewis. The colours don't go, the shoes are just unbelievably wrong, the red piping on the lapel is dull and towards crimson.... I hate this look.
Posted Image



Hmmmmmm.... :Thinking: Well it's obvious he intended to match the splashes of colour on his wife's(?) dress which is a nice thought on paper. Perhpas it's just the execution was simply too obvious. That shade of red thread used for the button holes would have been more subtle. Pocket square??....nah, again too much, to obvious. Bow tie? Perhaps, much would depend on size and shape.
He needs to quickly trade shoes with the guy standing behind him. Perhaps no one will notice.
His trousers make his legs look like they were twisted in an accident involving farm machinery.

As to the notch-lapel, four-in-hand as evening wear, it is pretty boring. Sadly it grows steadily more the norm. At least two of the gentlemen in the Seth Rogan pic are making things slightly more distinguishable from a funeral with the bound edge lapels.
I think Rogan himself is a victim of the genreation-wide flaw of thinking that omnipresent kitschy irony is somehow clever.

Edited by I.Brackley, 08 September 2010 - 01:57 PM.

"The possibilities that exist in the portrayal of personality constitute the strongest, and in fact the only unanswerable argument for the supremacy of Custom Tailoring"

-F.T. Croonborg, c. 1917




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users