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#1 hymo

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 03:23 AM

What sort of thread do you use for particularly fine shirting fabrics (170s, even 200s)? I know for a fact that many small tailoring shops use #100 polyester threads, and some use #120, but Guetermann in an application guide recommends a #150 for fine shirts. In fact, Guetermann has even developed the Mara 220 (a #220) for particularly fine fabrics and high stitch densities.

I'm having a bear of a time sourcing for Guetermanns -- they are the best threads you cannot buy.
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#2 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 04:02 AM

they are the best threads you cannot buy


Sad but a fact. Their marketing and supply logistics is a fail in my book. I live in a country that borders their home country and can not find 75% of their range
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#3 Schneidergott

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 05:25 AM

There are several sources in Germany with varying price ranges.

Here is one: http://www.fadenvers...-150-1000m.html

The Amann Saba range is pretty much equal to the GŁtermann range.
The GŁtermann threads you can buy on small plastic reels are quite some rubbish compared to their professional version. It untwists when you sew backwards. Plus it's more expensive per metre. Much more.

I checked on the Mara 220 thread and I think it's not meant for regular (lockstitch) machines but for the chainstitch versions or overlocks.
I think the #150 threads are fine for finer fabrics when sewn with a lockstitch machine.
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"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#4 jcsprowls

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 08:55 AM

I use Mara 150 for shirts and silks because the smallest needle I can buy is a sz: 60. Mara 220 I use for basting thread.

To get Gutermann thread, you need to open a wholesale account with them. You'd be surprised how small the order quantities are.
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#5 hymo

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 06:44 PM

Schneidergott, thanks for the source link, I might get them to send me some thread when I'm in Germany for a business trip. Their postage overseas are a ransom. I'm not however certain those threads are equivalents, Guetermann changed their thread technology a while back and appear to me to be a proper technology company that does real R&D.

jcsprowls, thanks for the explanation. It is kind of crazy for a customer to open a trade account with a thread manufacturer just to supply his tailor with them! But it is probably necessary if I want proper seams on my nice Alumo cloth shirts.
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#6 Nishijin

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 08:32 PM

If you are a customer, you should not open a trade account with GŁtermann (I do not know if you will be able to do so, anyway). Your tailor should, instead. Do you know what thread he uses ?
http://www.paulgrassart.com

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
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#7 hymo

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 09:39 PM

I have little respect for what should or should not be. If I were that docile I would be wearing fused polyester suits that fit very badly and wearing shirts of Chinese cloth with very stiff fused collars and cuffs. They bubble after the first wash and for the tailors it's the most normal thing in the world. That would be the path of least resistance.

I'm trying to have superlative garments made for myself in a sartorial wasteland. There will be the occasional casualty. Tailors here have zero formal education. Customers are very unsophisticated. Western redneck tourists wanting cheap suits in, oh, 2 days maybe?, abound. The first 24-hour tailor has recently made an appearance.

My tailor will have no understanding with this fuss about threads. He uses local crap and is perfectly happy to do so. Nobody has complained about his threads. Coats has bought up a local thread factory and sells it under the "Coats Kerbau" brand. No change of machinery, no change of technology, the threads are woolly like hell.

It all depends on me.

To make it very, very clear to you how my context differs from yours, I'd like to leave you with a picture. In the middle with the ponytail is Ian Chang, proprietor of one of the most well-regarded tailoring shop in Kuala Lumpur. Around him are fashion magazine editors and such during a fashion show he organized. They believe themselves to have the "License to Style".

Posted Image

*I* will have to source the threads.

Sorry Sator for such an elaboration.

#8 Nishijin

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 11:52 PM

Permission to use this pictures when discussing asian quick-tailoring elsewhere ? It is really enlightening. I thought things weren't great, I never thought they could be this bad...

BTW : I do not understand how you can celebrate in another topic the fact that in Asia where you live "everything happens faster" than on the Row... Maybe London tailors take more time, but at least they have results (well, usually).

Edited by Nishijin, 31 August 2010 - 11:59 PM.

http://www.paulgrassart.com

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
Mark Twain

#9 hymo

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 12:36 AM

Permission to use this pictures when discussing asian quick-tailoring elsewhere ? It is really enlightening. I thought things weren't great, I never thought they could be this bad...

BTW : I do not understand how you can celebrate in another topic the fact that in Asia where you live "everything happens faster" than on the Row... Maybe London tailors take more time, but at least they have results (well, usually).

Short lead times are not antagonistic with high quality levels. I make a living reducing lead times and improving quality levels and increasing labour and asset productivity in a manufacturing facility. I can go into any place where things are made and within a few months lead times go down and productivity goes up.

#10 Hedges

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 02:15 AM

Has anyone tried Aurifil threads? They're an Italian firm that makes cotton thread, mostly embroidery type. Aurifil

I'm thinking of giving this a try: Mako 50w cotton

#11 jcsprowls

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 05:42 AM

It is kind of crazy for a customer to open a trade account with a thread manufacturer just to supply his tailor with them!

If you're specifying the thread, you need to source it and supply it. You took on that degree of specificity, so you need to live with that decision.
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#12 hymo

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 01:43 AM

If you're specifying the thread, you need to source it and supply it. You took on that degree of specificity, so you need to live with that decision.

Yes, yes, of course. He would have no idea how to secure them otherwise.

Though for some reason, even the tiniest tailor shop here has Zegna swatches...

#13 jcsprowls

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 03:12 AM

Zegna does a great job marketing themselves and providing access to the materials.
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#14 Sator

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 11:42 AM

Holland & Sherry also seem to be everywhere.

There are some players in the market who are very good at ensuring that they maintain a strong position in the market. In some ways this is good, but I do think that competition is good. You don't want big players forming too much of a monopoly. That's why I try to give smaller producers of quality goods a voice here. However, some of them seem to have the strongest death wish.

It's painful to watch because we all know that the internet is such a powerful medium. I think just by exposing Dugdale here, I have probably increased their overall sales by a measurable amount. If you do a Google search of Dugdale Bros, this forum is at the top, followed by their own website, which previously was low down in the page. That alone will increase traffic to their website and help to increase their profits. I imagine if you Googled "Gilt Edge Suiting", you would find something similar, although they don't have a web presence. Faced with a global financial crisis, things like this can make the difference between sinking and swimming.

When the GFC hit a local maker confided in me that orders had come to a halt. Next creditors in Europe (cloth mills) who usually gave him slack were chasing him to pay his accounts ASAP, while the Aussie dollar was in free fall against the Euro. He had just brought property to expand his business. He was borrowing against his home as asset to pay his bills. It sounded grim. I will tell you what I said to him: you absolutely must, must set yourself up a website.

He took up my advice, and paid someone to design a website. It was a pretty low-medium budget design but still professional. The difference it made was enormous. He would get multiple enquiries every day, a significant proportion lead to sales. He had to set himself time to sit down daily and answer sales enquires - at my insistence. I told him, that's a lot less disruptive than sporadic phone calls through the day.

Soon he was complaining to me again about more business woes: too many orders to get through and being buried in a back log of sales. The website was the only real change to his business model. He did not advertise elsewhere. He did not start any promotions. Also, the government stimulus package had yet to pass through parliament and its impact took a little longer yet to trickle down to the grass roots level. It was quite clear that the website did it all.

#15 jcsprowls

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 12:53 PM

My crappy website generates 5-8 inquiries a day. I'm hit up by sundry "industry" and industry sourcing agents to purchase advertising space on their sites. I don't at this point because a) I needed to generate stuff for the photo gallery; and, b) my site ranks fairly high, as it is. That said, after I return from this show I'm preparing for, I'll hire a proper website designer to rebuild the site.

My point being: having a web presence captures a reasonable revenue stream. The presence doesn't need to be gorgeous, it just needs to show up in search results. Google has not yet replaced the phone book. But, I can tell you it's *significantly* cheaper and you are more likely to attract a higher calibre of client.
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#16 Sator

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 01:53 PM

^ BTW JC you need to put a link to your website in your signature. Makes a big difference to your Google ranking.

#17 hymo

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 06:11 PM

Coban Kurzwaren in Altona, Hamburg
Posted Image

Guetermann is difficult to find even in Germany. This is the only #150 I could find in a usuable colour.
Posted Image
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#18 jcsprowls

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 02:26 AM

That looks like A-thread. A192 was replaced by Mara 150 - they're the same thickness. Mara has a smooth finish; A thread has a fuzzy finish.

For shirts, I use white 98% of the time. I only use dye-to-match (DTM) when the white would appear as a style detail.
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