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New member here with a couple of questions


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#19 Nishijin

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 12:08 AM

Also Nishijin is right about starting again rather than trying too hard to fix an old draft


That was Martin, not me.
(though I agree with him).
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#20 Martin Stall

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 12:20 AM

Thanks Nishi. I get into plenty of trouble over things I say, and I'd like to keep that privilege to myself :)
Sure, I believe your work rocks, but... have you considered, how are you going to sell that stuff?

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#21 greger

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 07:46 AM

I don't know what you mean by extend the scye... widen it? If so, only in the front
Since you mentioned that it is tight across the front add to the side seam and full in the scye some. If you widen the scye you have made the shirt smaller across the front.


Fashion designers come up with some nifty ideas. What I don't like about them is their mickey mouse way of getting to the finished product. Tailoring is centuries of refined thinking and methods that many fashion designers haven't learned. There is another way of thinking that is for making 1-10,000,000 shirts with one cloth where all the details are figured out before production begins. But tailoring and home sewing is one garment and then some other type or a different cloth. If you want the best look then go with the tailors and not home fashion designers. Therefore as Martin and Nishijin say start with a tailors pattern system, and chuck the fashion designers book and thoughts. Clear your mind of those who do not have centuries of refined thinking. There is are some reasons why tailors are at the top of the clothing world, why learn from something less?

#22 Che Pasticcio

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 08:28 AM

Okay, I'll make another pattern. Is there a thread here dedicated to taking measurements for a shirt? I'm so exhausted trying to get this right (been trying for a couple of months now on my own before finding this site) and I want to avoid making any big mistakes. For instance, the shoulder measurement and the chest measurements on the pattern will tell me the points where the scye runs through, but I'd like some information about how to measure mid scye area to know how deep to or shallow to make the curve. I don't know if it's as easy as measuring across a shirt that fits nicely from seam to seam and dividing by 2. That sounds nice. I also have no idea how to draw some of the lines in the Roberts and Oshenko draft, such as the "back rise". A link of those pages from the book or something similar would be of great help, thanks.

I can't find the article you're talking about, Martin.

Edited by Che Pasticcio, 30 November 2010 - 09:31 AM.


#23 Che Pasticcio

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 08:30 AM

I meant widen the scye, as in extend the scye at chest level, the curve where the side seam starts.

#24 jcsprowls

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 01:44 PM

You measure the X-Front and X-back to get the "hollow" the scye fits into. X-Front is typically 1/2" narrower than the X-Back.

Standardly, the X-Front is measured 4" down from the CF neckline; and, the X-Back is 5" down from the CB neckline. In both cases, the are approximately mid-scye.
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#25 Che Pasticcio

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 03:03 PM

You measure the X-Front and X-back to get the "hollow" the scye fits into. X-Front is typically 1/2" narrower than the X-Back.

Standardly, the X-Front is measured 4" down from the CF neckline; and, the X-Back is 5" down from the CB neckline. In both cases, the are approximately mid-scye.


Thank you very much.

#26 Martin Stall

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 08:57 PM

Christian, it's a pity to hear that you've been having so much grief over this one. Here' more bad news: It's something that belongs to the learning process in this job, especially if you don't have the luxury of a teacher.

You must realise that it will take you ten shirts or more before you'll be happy with them. Including good fit, nice make, easy process. And hopefully, you'll still be looking to improve by then.

I think that most of your problem comes from two things:
Wanting a tight-fit, high armhole shirt. That's kind of practicing for a marathon by running half-marathons. It will wear you out. It's better to just make a decent moderately fitted shirt first, and wear it. It will reveal a lot, both while making and while wearing. After that, you can move to fitting issues.
You're doing it wearing army boots. Older patterns have their quirks and their intricacies. I never start teaching with that stuff. It's so much easier to get to grasps with the basics if you first learn a modern, well-thought pattern.

It'll take away a lot of the burn out you're experiencing now.

As for the armscye depth: A standard calculation to use as a gauge for a medium depth scye is 1/10th of chest+12.5+2to4 cm.

The 2to4 is the variable depth. With that you can establish if you took a decent set of measurements.

If you have questions about measuring, why not video the process? That way we can tell you if you're doing something wrong.

Good luck!
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Sure, I believe your work rocks, but... have you considered, how are you going to sell that stuff?

http: under construction...

#27 Che Pasticcio

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 10:02 AM

Thanks, Martin. It is very difficult indeed without a teacher. I never underestimated that. You are right about the tight fit. I'm often wearing RTW too tight in the shoulders to properly fit the waistline. It was such a hassle to get someone to measure me because of time constraints, I'm contemplating going to a good tailor here in D.C. and having a pattern done for me. I can practice and learn about shoulder slope and all that stuff on other people. I think I'll go nuts trying to fix those issues on my own pattern, especially without any guidance. I have learned a great deal but have been a little hesitant to apply it, again because of this tight shirt desire.

I suppose my body is one that might welcome more drape unless I add darts, as someone mentioned. My chest measures around 41in(104 cm) while my waist measures 31 (80cm). I've seen some people with shirts that fit the way you are advocating in the shoulder region while the waist does not have much drape and doesn't bag up so much when tucked. I suppose they might have a more square torso.

I think I should practice construction for now. Not knowing much about this art and being a perfectionist at heart is causing me a lot of frustration. I think this is something I would like to follow as a profession. How I would apply the skills If I obtain them (work for an RTW or something perhaps) is something I would have to consider. I don't want to give up because it's the first time I've truly felt passionate about something.

#28 jcsprowls

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 01:16 PM

OMG! A 10" drop! Don't try to fit that. The fabric will fight you tooth-and-nail.

Make your initial shirts based on a proportionate draft with a 3" drop, for now.

After you acquire the vocabulary, we'll help you take the next steps.
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#29 Che Pasticcio

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 04:56 PM

OMG! A 10" drop! Don't try to fit that. The fabric will fight you tooth-and-nail.

Make your initial shirts based on a proportionate draft with a 3" drop, for now.

After you acquire the vocabulary, we'll help you take the next steps.


Haha, am I officially corpulent? So the norm is about 3" eh?

#30 ct3d

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 06:36 PM

Haha, am I officially corpulent? So the norm is about 3" eh?

You're corpulent the same way the proportional (8-head-) systems consider me short-legged. :-)

#31 Martin Stall

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 03:46 AM

Thanks, Martin. It is very difficult indeed without a teacher. I never underestimated that. You are right about the tight fit. I'm often wearing RTW too tight in the shoulders to properly fit the waistline. It was such a hassle to get someone to measure me because of time constraints, I'm contemplating going to a good tailor here in D.C. and having a pattern done for me. I can practice and learn about shoulder slope and all that stuff on other people. I think I'll go nuts trying to fix those issues on my own pattern, especially without any guidance. I have learned a great deal but have been a little hesitant to apply it, again because of this tight shirt desire.

I suppose my body is one that might welcome more drape unless I add darts, as someone mentioned. My chest measures around 41in(104 cm) while my waist measures 31 (80cm). I've seen some people with shirts that fit the way you are advocating in the shoulder region while the waist does not have much drape and doesn't bag up so much when tucked. I suppose they might have a more square torso.

I think I should practice construction for now. Not knowing much about this art and being a perfectionist at heart is causing me a lot of frustration. I think this is something I would like to follow as a profession. How I would apply the skills If I obtain them (work for an RTW or something perhaps) is something I would have to consider. I don't want to give up because it's the first time I've truly felt passionate about something.


It's not so much a square torso. It comes down to a good cut.

There is a lot to know about cutting shirts and if you're learning to make, and cut, AND you're on your own, it's really hard, if not impossible, so I'm really happy to hear you are going to focus on construction for now. Won't take long, I promise :)
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Sure, I believe your work rocks, but... have you considered, how are you going to sell that stuff?

http: under construction...

#32 tailleuse

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:42 AM

It is very difficult indeed without a teacher

I once read a home sewer's blog in which she said that you could learn how to sew from a book. I thought she was an idiot and I had plenty of confirmation thereafter.

Not knowing much about this art and being a perfectionist at heart is causing me a lot of frustration.

I am not unfamiliar with the sentiment.

Edited by tailleuse, 02 December 2010 - 11:44 AM.

Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#33 jcsprowls

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:55 AM

A: You're not corpulent. Corpulent cuts are a whole other beast.
B: I did not say 3" drop was normal.

Most patterndrafting texts contain a shirt draft that has 3" of suppression in the waist. This happens to be about all the suppression that shirting cotton can handle from an entry level patternmaker. Once you master dart manipulation, we can discuss other options for slimmer fitting styles.

Basically, I'm saying "go get context, then come back".

RE: instruction. Books are good. Context is better.
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#34 tailleuse

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 01:44 PM

If you want the best look then go with the tailors and not home fashion designers. Therefore as Martin and Nishijin say start with a tailors pattern system, and chuck the fashion designers book and thoughts. Clear your mind of those who do not have centuries of refined thinking. There is are some reasons why tailors are at the top of the clothing world, why learn from something less?


greger:

I have great respect for tailors, but I think you're being overly dismissive of fashion designers, at least the good ones. It's plain to me after only a couple of weeks of being on this forum that women interested in tailoring for themselves or other women need to know a good deal about dressmaking. I keep reading about the difficulty of fitting a woman's body.

In addition, some tailor's clothes for women are not well thought out and adapted and end up making women look unfashionably mannish and dowdy.

Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#35 Che Pasticcio

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 05:01 PM

A: You're not corpulent. Corpulent cuts are a whole other beast.
B: I did not say 3" drop was normal.

Most patterndrafting texts contain a shirt draft that has 3" of suppression in the waist. This happens to be about all the suppression that shirting cotton can handle from an entry level patternmaker. Once you master dart manipulation, we can discuss other options for slimmer fitting styles.

Basically, I'm saying "go get context, then come back".

RE: instruction. Books are good. Context is better.


I was only kidding but thanks for the information. It's good to know.

#36 A TAILOR

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 12:05 PM

I was only kidding but thanks for the information. It's good to know.



CHE, please if you have a shirt made. only have it made by a shop that has the shirts made in the back room. this is where the proprietor is the cutter.
most places are just a show room, and the garments are made in a factory some where else. you will not learn anything there.
if you are at a real shirt maker he will proudly allow you to go into his workshop. by keeping your eyes open you can learn a lot.
on your first visit ask to see the shop and make friends with the workers. later at fittings go in back and say hello to the gang each time.




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