Jump to content


Photo

New member here with a couple of questions


  • Please log in to reply
48 replies to this topic

#37 greger

greger

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,122 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington, USA

Posted 03 December 2010 - 01:13 PM

on your first visit ask to see the shop and make friends with the workers. later at fittings go in back and say hello to the gang each time.


Sneaky, but that is exactly how to do it.

#38 greger

greger

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,122 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington, USA

Posted 03 December 2010 - 03:15 PM

greger:

I have great respect for tailors, but I think you're being overly dismissive of fashion designers, at least the good ones. It's plain to me after only a couple of weeks of being on this forum that women interested in tailoring for themselves or other women need to know a good deal about dressmaking. I keep reading about the difficulty of fitting a woman's body.

In addition, some tailor's clothes for women are not well thought out and adapted and end up making women look unfashionably mannish and dowdy.


Before fashion designers women did very well. Indeed, tailoring is different. And going to a tailor who only makes for men can have an un-womenish look and feel. Because, they are not picturing womens clothes for making almost ever, nor thinking about that sort of construction, and some will never be good at it anyway. But the better tailors have know how and cut to the chase. Some tailors really only know how to make a few things, and some do it very well. But, some can make many things. For a customer a tailor doesn't have dozens of patterns such as coats, but one or two, maybe three. From that he can cut maybe a hundred different kinds of coats simply by moving lines for the style or fashion. But it begins with those few patterns fitted. Many fashion designers come from a different education that lacks centuries of refined methods of thinking and construction. Why reinvent the wheel? There are some really good designers out there, but some send there ideas out to somebody else to figure out how to make it work.

Can't speak for the wit of every tailor. Some do what they are told and don't know why. Some know many reasons for whys and pick from them to achieve what they want (these are the tailors you want to be around).

Then there is also homemaking methods and professional methods and those who are beyond (there are few people who are born with the knack). Some forums are for homemaking methods. This site isn't. Homemaking methods almost never lends to quality. So homemaking methods of thinking needs to be kept away.
  • tailleuse likes this

#39 tailleuse

tailleuse

    Master

  • Senior Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,059 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Tailoring and couture.

Posted 04 December 2010 - 02:22 AM

I wish I could find a moderately fashion-forward tailor in NYC who could make me some basic patterns for a reasonable price.

Homemaking methods almost never lends to quality. So homemaking methods of thinking needs to be kept away.


greger, I don't think I ever have argued for the superiority of home-sewing methods. I feel a bit more at home in this forum than some others because I think I can adapt many of the things bespoke tailors do to sewing for myself. (I am not discounting the value of many years of concentrated practice in a professional setting and the value of first-rate equipment. My only hope is that I'll only have one client.).

In some fora, for example, Fashion Incubator, I feel a little lost because it is a forum primarily for people oriented to production work. The methods tend to be very different and not at all reproducible by someone like me.

And as for some home sewing sites, I read them to see what some people are doing and some are very accomplished. I like to read about their supplies sources. But sometimes I think, "Why don't you take some courses or get some professional help?"

The trait the three types of fora share is that the participants are all very opinionated.

Edited by tailleuse, 04 December 2010 - 02:24 AM.

Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#40 Nishijin

Nishijin

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,704 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Paris, France.
  • Interests:Mainly tailoring it seems, but my friends know better...

Posted 04 December 2010 - 02:48 AM

In some fora, for example, Fashion Incubator, I feel a little lost because it is a forum primarily for people oriented to production work. The methods tend to be very different and not at all reproducible by someone like me.


The methods demonstrated on Fashion Incubator are professionnal methods. They are industry-oriented, which means use of fusing and everything is machined, but they are professional and usually quite good. I don't see why they would not be reproductible by someone like you : I can reproduce everything easily.

Tailoring methods are much harder to reproduce by someone who has not been trained to use them. They require a lot of specific equipement, and a home sewer can't use them without this proper equipement, or he will never get a professional-level result.
http://www.paulgrassart.com

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
Mark Twain

#41 tailleuse

tailleuse

    Master

  • Senior Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,059 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Tailoring and couture.

Posted 04 December 2010 - 02:54 AM

The methods demonstrated on Fashion Incubator are professionnal methods. They are industry-oriented, which means use of fusing and everything is machined, but they are professional and usually quite good. I don't see why they would not be reproductible by someone like you : I can reproduce everything easily.

Tailoring methods are much harder to reproduce by someone who has not been trained to use them. They require a lot of specific equipement, and a home sewer can't use them without this proper equipement, or he will never get a professional-level result.



Thanks for depressing me. :)

What I meant is Fashion Incubator often discusses efficient methods for the mass production of garments for a line, often using subcontractors. I'm not interested in using fusibles. I like hand work.

Maybe I should just give up now. :unsure:

Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#42 Nishijin

Nishijin

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,704 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Paris, France.
  • Interests:Mainly tailoring it seems, but my friends know better...

Posted 04 December 2010 - 03:09 AM

What I meant is Fashion Incubator often discusses efficient methods for the mass production of garments for a line, often using subcontractors.


Just skip those parts. Of course, they talk about contractors, FI is aimed at the RTW market designers.
Still, there are some good sewing tutorials, and a lot of talk about patternmaking and sewing that are usefull.

I'm not interested in using fusibles. I like hand work.


I don't like fusible either. But understand where and why Kathleen uses it is interesting. Tailors usually have the same need, but use another, more difficult, solution. Fusing is "cheating" to avoid many difficulties of tailoring. It is a tool to make "correct" garments more easily. I like to see well-used fusing in an industrial garment, it usually improves quality.

The main problem I have reading this blog and forum is that the vocabulary is different, and I make frequent misinterpretations (for example, I understood today that Kathleen does not mean the same thing by "to fit" that I do. She seems to imply that "fitting" means taking the ease out. I have no problem fitting a baggy garment, the fact it is baggy does not means it does not have a correct balance).

Maybe I should just give up now.


Giving up is not the solution. You just need to decide if you want to learn proper profesionnal methods to get professional results, or if you want to stick to home sewing. I thought that you went to FIT lessons because you wanted to learn professionnal methodes. Nobody ever said it would be easy.
But as long as you show dedication to learn proper tailoring methodes, you will get help here.
http://www.paulgrassart.com

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
Mark Twain

#43 tailleuse

tailleuse

    Master

  • Senior Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,059 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Tailoring and couture.

Posted 04 December 2010 - 03:17 AM

Just skip those parts. Of course, they talk about contractors, FI is aimed at the RTW market designers.


Oh, I do.

Still, there are some good sewing tutorials, and a lot of talk about patternmaking and sewing that are usefull.



True enough. I do look at them. But I find that if I don't know something about the technique or am not applying it at the time I read it my eyes glaze over. I try to get the gist.


Giving up is not the solution. You just need to decide if you want to learn proper profesionnal methods to get professional results, or if you want to stick to home sewing. I thought that you went to FIT lessons because you wanted to learn professionnal methodes. Nobody ever said it would be easy.
But as long as you show dedication to learn proper tailoring methodes, you will get help here.


Thank you. You were making it sound almost as if there were no point.

I could be wrong about this, but all the "Ladies Tailoring" courses I know about at FIT are courses in which you make up a garment from a school pattern. The only draping and pattern making classes of which I'm aware are offered by the Fashion Design and Apparel Design departments, i.e., dressmaking departments. The only time I've seen tailoring patterns drafted from scratch was by students in the Menswear department, and they of course were drafting for men, and all the dress forms are men's dress forms.

So you see I don't have any background in the drafting of tailoring patterns except for what I've read here and on the English Cut blog. And I've never seen a tailoring draft being prepared for a woman.

Edited by tailleuse, 04 December 2010 - 03:25 AM.

Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#44 jcsprowls

jcsprowls

    Pro

  • Super Pro
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,134 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Roanoke, Virginia

Posted 04 December 2010 - 04:41 AM

Kathleen does not espouse mass production. She quite very specifically focuses on developing micro-businesses with less than 50 employees. And, her preference is for companies that understand their market so well that they do not over-produce or generate waste.

In that regard, Kathleen and I see eye-to-eye.

It's a very common misperception. But, the methods we use within industry scale all the way down to one garment or up to tens of thousands. Conversely, the methods typically taught in schools have no scale at all. If you never work in the RTW manufacturing context, you don't have an objective point of view on the subject.

"skin" fusing is a method of changing the properties of a cloth to make it more suitable for tailoring methods. That's all.

Edited by jcsprowls, 04 December 2010 - 04:45 AM.

___________

Dir, Product Development

web: http://www.studio9apparel.com
portfolio: http://www.behance.net/studio9apparel

#45 tailleuse

tailleuse

    Master

  • Senior Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,059 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Tailoring and couture.

Posted 04 December 2010 - 05:36 AM

Kathleen does not espouse mass production. She quite very specifically focuses on developing micro-businesses with less than 50 employees. And, her preference is for companies that understand their market so well that they do not over-produce or generate waste.

In that regard, Kathleen and I see eye-to-eye.

It's a very common misperception. But, the methods we use within industry scale all the way down to one garment or up to tens of thousands. Conversely, the methods typically taught in schools have no scale at all. If you never work in the RTW manufacturing context, you don't have an objective point of view on the subject.


By comparison to me, planning to make one-off garments from one set of slopers, it's mass production. I assumed nishijin, who seems to be familiar with the site, knew what I meant. But thank you for the clarification.

And I don't think I've said anything that would suggest the contrary, but I like Fashion Incubator and its forum. It can be very helpful, and it's always interesting.

Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#46 Martin Stall

Martin Stall

    Wizard

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 979 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spain

Posted 04 December 2010 - 05:41 AM

But as long as you show dedication to learn proper tailoring methodes, you will get help here.



Sator, give that man Champagne. :)
Sure, I believe your work rocks, but... have you considered, how are you going to sell that stuff?

http: under construction...

#47 jcsprowls

jcsprowls

    Pro

  • Super Pro
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,134 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Roanoke, Virginia

Posted 04 December 2010 - 06:27 AM

make one-off garments from one set of slopers, it's mass production

It's not.
___________

Dir, Product Development

web: http://www.studio9apparel.com
portfolio: http://www.behance.net/studio9apparel

#48 Nishijin

Nishijin

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,704 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Paris, France.
  • Interests:Mainly tailoring it seems, but my friends know better...

Posted 04 December 2010 - 07:38 AM

By comparison to me, planning to make one-off garments from one set of slopers, it's mass production.



Errr... no, it's not. Would it be, commercial* bespoke tailoring would be mass production too.
You see, tailors make very few pattern for each customer. Once a basic pattern is fitted (which can take a few garments made from it before it's perfect), all following garments are made from this same pattern. So it's the same role as a "sloper". Different styles are made as a variation on this base, and a lot of styling is made directly while making the garment, during fittings. That's why a fitting can be very similar to draping.



* "commercial" : in opposition to what you've seen at school. A workshop does not work as a classroom. Neither in bespoke nor in manufacturing.
http://www.paulgrassart.com

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
Mark Twain

#49 Sator

Sator

    Administrator

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,998 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney, Australia

Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:00 AM

I wish I could find a moderately fashion-forward tailor in NYC who could make me some basic patterns for a reasonable price.

greger, I don't think I ever have argued for the superiority of home-sewing methods. I feel a bit more at home in this forum than some others because I think I can adapt many of the things bespoke tailors do to sewing for myself.


The trouble is that drafting a pattern, proving it, and then fitting it for the specific garment being made are three different things. A pattern is a tool that the cutter who made it knows how to manipulate and troubleshoot on the fly - that's why tailors leave inlays. There is at least one forum member who thinks that due to the difficulty of fitting to a specific cup shape that flat drafting for women is an exercise in total futility, and that the only way to work with women is to drape.

When it comes to home sewing, I've come across precious few homesewing book that come even near the methods used by professional bench tailors. Even trying to supplement Cabrera with lots of additional information to bring it up to speed is a nightmare. I think of dozens of things that aren't in there, and anguish over how I am ever going to get it all across. It will take years to fill in the gaps that are missing.

The trait the three types of fora share is that the participants are all very opinionated.


It's actually a characteristic of all internet fora!




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users