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The Thomas Mahon thread.


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#37 Svenn

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 05:10 AM

Mr. DeBoise on the other hand, while they still have the "bent stripe" phenomena that Sator is not fond of, I find his cuts more appealing, better fitting and honestly he's the better cutter between the A&S lot. (IMHO)


From my limited knowledge and the photos I've seen, I would have to agree. It also appears that Mr. DeBoise is less of a fashion figure like Mahon and more of a down-to-earth craftsman, with greater flexibilty (IMHO). I wonder if anyone with personal experience disagrees? I realize subjective comments like this might be better reserved to the Bespeaker's Forum, but I think it's always useful and helpful when critiques like this are made, especially of lofty Savile Row tailors, that tailors with alternative approaches are offered. I still wait for the day when Sator reveals his tailor ;) or perhaps it is yourself??

#38 Nishijin

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 05:34 AM

What exactly does make you think that Mr Mahon is less "flexible" than Mr DeBoise ?

Critics review are usefull indeed, but honnestly this give me more a sensation of lynching than honnest critics. Negative comments should be backed-up by evidence, not hearsay. Have you ever had any contact with Mr Mahon which gave you this idea of lack of flexibility ?
http://www.paulgrassart.com

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#39 greger

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 06:15 AM

I. Brackley, that is an interesting picture. The collar and shoulder is done very well. The sleeves wide at the elbow a couple coats my granddad had were like that when I was a small child. What is interesting about tailoring is that tailors can really think different. Some follow a crowd and some are very independent, some families have their own methods. One crowd has set rules they stick to and others are more loose, and the rules from one group can be very different than another. A person from one group walks into a crowd of another group and those people think that persons clothes are all wrong, but the person may have followed the rules exactly of the group he comes from and be perfect. Sticking together to much is like inbreeding. People need to get out and around to see and learn what others are doing. Some say Savile Row are the best tailors in the world and some are as there are some best tailors elsewhere in the world. Creativity can be born anywhere, so no group can claim best by default. History is interesting; as clothes change how do the tailors change to keep up? Some don't, and they don't need to, while others go out of business who refuse to change. My granddad and his brothers saw a lot of changes during their life time. From the WWI on there wasn't much change as before. They watched what other tailors did. It would have been very interesting to listen to them talking about how to keep up with the changes. What to put in and what not to put in out of what others choose. Plus, their own inventions, because their coats were not like other tailors. So many tailored coats seem generically the same- that gets boring quick. With the loss of tailoring for the last 50 years many of the different groups of tailors have disappeared and we don't get what they would be offering if they still existed.
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#40 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 06:33 AM

I understand you are playing devils advocate here. But facts do remain, that the same inherent "style" characteristics are evident in Mr. Mahon's cuts (some see this as flaws, others as character) but we see the same drag, long balance and funky under arm in all the pics, no matter the attitude, size or composition of the man wearing the cut. People for some odd reason like this, I from a technical aspect could never let a coat out of my shop if it looked like many of the examples of his work we have seen. For another odd reason it has been ingrained into our psyche that soft tailoring equates to a lax and slovenly appearance, but if one looks at Scholte's originals, yes they were soft, and yes they had drape, but they were not slovenly in appearance, they were guit clean compared to today's "scholte/A&S cuts. I am not trying to negative or blast any one. Mr. Mahon does what he does and people love him for it, I just think that he could clean up his cuts a little so every example we see, no mater the body type, does not show the same characteristics that many of us see as fitting flaws.

Lastly, why is it such a sin to say anything about the A&S cut? the other forums talk smack about many cuts and house styles but got forbid you mention the A&S cut. Why is this?
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#41 jukes

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 06:40 AM

This Saville Row and associated tailor bashing is getting boring, lets see some garments from other countries, some of the stuff i have seen from Spain gets very little mention, yet the work i have seen is beutiful.

#42 Nishijin

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 06:48 AM

I don't care who is bashed, bashing gets boring anyway. I agree with Jukes it's much more inspirational to see interesting examples than to comment what's wrong. We see poor fitting and poor making everyday. Let's show what tailoring should look like, instead.
http://www.paulgrassart.com

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
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#43 Sator

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 06:50 AM

In what way has there been any tailor bashing here? If so it ought to be deleted as being against forum rules.

The OP asked for an assessment of some coats and a measured, objective one was given. I personally see no "bashing", no attempt to ridicule, put down, or unjustly criticise anywhere. If the coats in the opening post were Spanish an equally measured and objective analysis would have been given. As it happens, they weren't Spanish.

#44 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 06:51 AM

I'd like to see good stuff from saville row as well. You're right I am bored as well of the same ol A&S and alma mater discussions. I want to see Poole, Huntsman, Gieves as well as some other things such as Chris Despos' work, Jake's work, Nishijins work, hell I want to see my work as well so I need to go and make some thing!
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#45 MANSIE WAUCH

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 07:02 AM

With this discussion, regarding the merits of old and new methods of producing this style are that style, with this angle and that angle. I would like to add my two pennyworth to the pot.

I would say that traditional tailoring started to decline with the advent of man made and synthetic fibres. The lack of flexibility in the mixtures called for the necessity of different methods of cutting. Then along came the fusible interlinings which pushed the boundaries further. Tailors who had been working with the skills of a lifetime found this all confusing and did not, or could not adapt to the changes.
The increase in ownership of a motor car, complete with a heater, meant that one could go from A to B quicker, thus the trend to dress more casual become the norm.

All this change from about the sixties onwards basically killed bespoke tailoring.
Youngsters were not coming into the trade. More money could be earned in the car factory (who needs an apprenticeship!)

Factory made garments were becoming easier to produce and cheaper to buy.
The new cutting and tailoring methods were born in the factories and some have been adapted by the existing bespoke tailors. The traditionalists, such as ‘Saville Row’ (I use ‘Saville Row’ as an example only!) have tried to keep up the standards of the past, but as older staff are retiring or dying off, the newer staff have not got the skills of the past and the cracks are starting to show.

I honestly feel that what Sator has given us with this forum and the people who are contributing and making exchanges, things could get better with the state of the trade.

I hope I am not out of line in making these assertions, they are my own thoughts and ideas based on my time in the trade
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#46 MANSIE WAUCH

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 07:06 AM

I'd like to see good stuff from saville row as well. You're right I am bored as well of the same ol A&S and alma mater discussions. I want to see Poole, Huntsman, Gieves as well as some other things such as Chris Despos' work, Jake's work, Nishijins work, hell I want to see my work as well so I need to go and make some thing!



Calm down! Calm down! :frantics: :frantics:

#47 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 07:08 AM

I concur with your thoughts Mansie, but it's not to late if the crack are sealed now before water gets in and freezes.

Edited by J. Maclochlainn, 20 January 2011 - 07:08 AM.

Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#48 greger

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 07:20 AM

I concur with your thoughts Mansie, but it's not to late if the crack are sealed now before water gets in and freezes.


Like and old cracked pot glued together?

Some of SR problems is they didn't keep up with the methods of advertising. Advertising styles change like clothing styles. What worked for one genreation doesn't always work for the next.
Coke said something like this, "If we don't advertise we don't exist". If you start to be forgotten you need to let people know that you exist and what you can do for them.

#49 Sator

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 07:29 AM

BTW, the following come from Mr Mahon's former partner, and previous colleague at A&S - Edwin DeBoise (Steed Bespoke):

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

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As you can see, the fit of those garments is impeccable. Let nobody - absolutely nobody - dismiss even an iota of criticism uttered here as petty and malicious "bashing" because of the garment's providence. All pictures are quoted from the Steed blog or the Steed Facebook page.

http://www.facebook....ors/33957779948

http://steeds-view.blogspot.com/

In fact, the only thing under-the-belt I can see is the claim that I would only be motivated to criticise a coat on the basis of who the maker was.

#50 Nishijin

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 07:34 AM

hell I want to see my work as well so I need to go and make some thing!


This reminds me there's a cream waistcoat I'd like to see...
http://www.paulgrassart.com

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
Mark Twain

#51 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 07:39 AM

Yeah yeah, it's getting there, I've only been here a week :p
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#52 Svenn

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 08:07 AM

What exactly does make you think that Mr Mahon is less "flexible" than Mr DeBoise ?

Critics review are usefull indeed, but honnestly this give me more a sensation of lynching than honnest critics. Negative comments should be backed-up by evidence, not hearsay. Have you ever had any contact with Mr Mahon which gave you this idea of lack of flexibility ?


I have no personal experience with him, I apologize if that wasn't clear in my first post. However there are several london lounge, styleforum, and askandy threads where posters with experience state he is not very flexible, and expects the client to conform to his visions of what an ideal jacket should look like. Indeed this is hearsay, but I could dig up those posts if pressed and certainly any reader of this thread could look them up themselves. That isn't to say, of course, that there might be just as many posts by clients with personal experience who say just the opposite. It's a tricky game wading through the sea of information out there, I'm just reporting what I've read, and not trying to bash or lynch anyone. Besides, I don't think Mr. Mahon's reputation is very threatened by what we write here ;)

BTW, the following come from Mr Mahon's former partner, and previous colleague at A&S - Edwin DeBoise (Steed Bespoke):

As you can see, the fit of those garments is impeccable. Let absolutely nobody dismiss even an iota of criticism uttered here as petty and malicious "bashing" because of the garment's providence. All pictures are quoted from the Steed blog or the Steed Facebook page.

Do we have any pics of Vox's back or are they all from the front in that static posture?

#53 Sator

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 09:48 AM

Do we have any pics of Vox's back or are they all from the front in that static posture?


Posted Image

Note the pattern matching - there is no centre back seam on this one.

#54 Svenn

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 10:23 AM

^that's impressive! thanks for digging that up. It looks like all those impeccable jackets in those German publications from the 60's posted here. I assume it's even all the more impressive considering there's no center seam.




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