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The Thomas Mahon thread.


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#91 jukes

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 09:59 PM

A coats balance comes from the neckpoint, Therefore the neckpoint and shoulder line needs to be moved to either crooken or straighten, which in turn alters how the fronts will hang. Widening or narrowing the fronts on their own, does not move the shoulder line to the correct position.

If the neckpoint is moved backwards (crookened) the fronts become wider by default, the opposite is true for straightening the neckpoint.


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#92 Schneidergott

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 03:56 AM

When you reduce the overlap, there is no change to the position of the front of scye line on the body.

But when you change the front shoulder and therefore also move the front neck point you shift the centre front line and the front of scye line.

 

CSS0022a.jpg

 

The front of scye line is from point 5 to 10. The front shoulder point is 11, front neck point is 4.

When you move 11 closer to the FoS line you also move point 4. By doing so you reduce the distance between 4 (FNP) and the centre front line.

But, what also happens is that the additional width at the front (or the overlap in Mahon's diagram) is moved towards the sides, hence creating fullness (or drape) at the front of scye line.

The much admired "drape" coats of the 30's had just that done to the drafts: They moved the neck point forwards:

 

image3.jpg

 

 


"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
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#93 Faya

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 08:57 PM

These diagrams are very clear.

 

Thanks!



#94 napoli

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 08:53 AM

jjg.jpg
Ugh, that shoulder seam is terrible and it really does come from one of his cutters. That is like having a ferrari with a big dent in it, not to mention the collar.

The art of the tailor isn't always about fit. Fashions aren't always about fit. But, the composition should be good. Some people have a good eye and others don't.

Mahon cuts his coats without a side body, which limits the fit further. Is this always true? He might like that cut most of the time and push it, but is it always true? I suspect he cuts many more methods than you imagine. As far as limits, some cloth, there is a tremendous amount of shaping that can be done with an iron and know how. If you have not seen great iron work, then you have no idea what can be done and why some old tailors disliked sidebodies.


What worries me most is that a knowledgeable man like Will Thoelke shows himself in such ill-fitting garments. Most customers don't know what a good fit is nor much else about clothes, that is why they are customers. They don't have the training, and I would just as soon leave most of them in the dark.

 

 

Rubinacci ( as well as Pirozzi ) are my most hated by defective Neapolitan tailor houses, I walk daily by their door and won´t ever come in.  See how only tackys wear those brands.  :Big Grin:

 

I have a full collection of pictures for my upcoming blog of ill fitting and bad cutted garments from those, in fact never seen a good fitting one. 


Edited by napoli, 21 January 2014 - 08:54 AM.


#95 MKennys

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 05:48 PM

Nice post. One of the key elements to making a separate double blazer work is choice of fabric, and minimal padding in the shoulders!


Brock, Bespoke tailor @ M Kenny's Fashions


#96 greger

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 11:05 AM

Napoli, I have seen some pictures of nice clothes coming from Rubinacci, but, not all of them.

.


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#97 Rory Duffy

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 12:52 PM

To the best of my knowledge A&S and Mahon both cut straight coats. To cut a straight coat there is less cloth on the front edge and more towards the chest. The front balance is also longer. The idea being that the coat swings open and drapes at the front scye, ideal for a soft chest.

A crooked coat, (the way I cut,) is cut to close, the button is there merely to fasten the garment. When unbuttoned the hem of the coat is parallel with the floor.

When buttoning a straight coat, it picks up the foreparts and creates that drag seen in the images provided.

When cutting a sloped shoulder and then putting that on a wear with a high shoulder issues can arise across the shoulder plain, as there is neither muscle nor tissues to take up this space. 

The A&S look is not for me though I do appreciate the effect it achieves and as a true bespoke tailor offer that option to my clients. 

For novices and idealists the easiest thing to do is critic others work. Tailoring is a tough game! During my time I have seen the strangest defects that any body has to offer. In order to achieve a really clean fit one must first opt for a crook coat, so there is no dragging at the button, accept his shoulder slope for what it is and cut according and be prepared to pay a high price, so the cutter/ tailor can afford the alterations bill to meet the clients expectations.

Cloths are lighter now than in my Grandfathers days (1896 - 1989), I'm not making 20oz wools which are tough as old boots and forgive even the grievous  sinner. They are lighter weight and have to be tailored more delicately. 

When it comes to shoulder padding its the back that it helps more than the front. A thick shoulder pad will lift the cloth giving more cloth across the back and cleaning the back os scyes. 

Personal I use wing pads in some of my coats especially if the client is hollow back there. There is only so much one can draw the back armhole and pick up the shoulders before incurring other issues, particularly with light weight wools.

 

I have high shoulders so I use a 1 ply pad, once the shoulder angle is greater than 2 3/4" I use a 2 ply pad, when the slope is greater than 3 1/4 I'll use a 2 or 3 ply. 

 

I wonder how many contributors to these posts who have read "The Art of Garment Making", or "The Science of Pattern Construction for Garment Makers", have actually cut a pattern, made a coat, put on the wearers back and had it hang flawlessly. Believe me no tailor have ever set out to make an ill fitted coat.


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