Jump to content


Photo

Question for the male customer (and the tailors)


  • Please log in to reply
58 replies to this topic

#19 Nishijin

Nishijin

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,704 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Paris, France.
  • Interests:Mainly tailoring it seems, but my friends know better...

Posted 22 January 2011 - 07:52 PM

Back pockets that don't close are just plain ridiculous.

My own personnal use for back pockets is to put handkerchief. One is enough, but it has to close. But that's my own personnal preference. I've been asked none, one and two. Each customer has his uses.

I've never been asked for the loop closing, though, and actually completely forgot that's a possibility. I usually make button-though, or when customer asks for it, flap. (which is much more work, so I only make it is required :Whistle: ).

I really don't understand why your company restricted those options. It's absurd. Customers should be able to ask for pockets they like, if the subcontractor can make them.
http://www.paulgrassart.com

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
Mark Twain

#20 Jake K

Jake K

    Apprentice

  • Super Pro
  • PipPip
  • 301 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Los Angeles
  • Interests:Unfortunately, 10,000 hours is on the low side for tailoring.

Posted 22 January 2011 - 08:06 PM

Back pockets that don't close are just plain ridiculous.


I had a client that might become violent if he had received a back pocket with a closure.

He never did receive one with a closure.
Jacob Kozinn
Custom Tailor in Los Angeles
http://jacobkozinn.com

#21 Nishijin

Nishijin

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,704 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Paris, France.
  • Interests:Mainly tailoring it seems, but my friends know better...

Posted 22 January 2011 - 08:12 PM

Yeah, well, you know me, I'm a small tailor, a nineth of a man... I always comply to violent men whishes. :Money Eyes:
http://www.paulgrassart.com

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
Mark Twain

#22 Jake K

Jake K

    Apprentice

  • Super Pro
  • PipPip
  • 301 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Los Angeles
  • Interests:Unfortunately, 10,000 hours is on the low side for tailoring.

Posted 22 January 2011 - 08:13 PM

Yeah, well, you know me, I'm a small tailor, a nineth of a man... I always comply to violent men whishes. :Money Eyes:


Haha. Did I say why he never received a pocket with a closure, though? :Whistle:
Jacob Kozinn
Custom Tailor in Los Angeles
http://jacobkozinn.com

#23 Nishijin

Nishijin

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,704 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Paris, France.
  • Interests:Mainly tailoring it seems, but my friends know better...

Posted 22 January 2011 - 08:19 PM

Oh, BTW, it's perfectly OK if someone asks me for no closure. It means less work. No loop to make, no flap, no buttonhole. I like that, except on my own pants.
http://www.paulgrassart.com

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
Mark Twain

#24 Jake K

Jake K

    Apprentice

  • Super Pro
  • PipPip
  • 301 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Los Angeles
  • Interests:Unfortunately, 10,000 hours is on the low side for tailoring.

Posted 22 January 2011 - 08:44 PM

Oh, BTW, it's perfectly OK if someone asks me for no closure. It means less work. No loop to make, no flap, no buttonhole. I like that, except on my own pants.


I'm with you. I put buttonholes on my front trouser pockets sometimes too. Never on a suit's trousers, though, of course.
Jacob Kozinn
Custom Tailor in Los Angeles
http://jacobkozinn.com

#25 Schneidergott

Schneidergott

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,680 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland

Posted 22 January 2011 - 09:46 PM

Customers should be able to ask for pockets they like, if the subcontractor can make them.


The trick we have to pull off right now is not letting them ask or letting them know such an option does exist. We just tell them what they get when they choose a pocket style.
"Pocket with a button, Sir? You'll get two, for better symmetry! I'm sorry, if you want only one pocket you'll get one without a button"! That's all I can offer!"

Here is the really :crazy: part: Should the customer insist on having only one pocket with a closure (zipper or button) and there is the risk of loosing the order, we are told to note down his wish and we'd add it later in our shop, which means we spend 1,5h work and approximately 45 Euros extra for one pocket. :yahoo:

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#26 J. Maclochlainn

J. Maclochlainn

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,127 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 January 2011 - 04:26 AM

Well I say make a note on every order for a single right pocket with loop until they get the hint. Just say the customers are stubborn! This will be believable, because, well, Germans are stubborn :D j/k

I love how SG avoids the do business for himself remarks now :D Ahh wasted talent =/

MY outlook it that the pencil pushers won't know until they are told or shown. Perhaps a field trip to a sales trip might help them understand.
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#27 NW Tailor

NW Tailor

    Umsie

  • Professional
  • Pip
  • 36 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:The Great Northwest

Posted 23 January 2011 - 01:59 PM

Re brand the trousers as the "Golf range" and they will fly out the door, us golfers like our back pockets.Posted Image



A large percentage of my custom/bespoke clients are golf professionals ~ and two back pockets are a requirement. Whether it be slacks/trousers or full suits, spending time with the client and discussing their lifestyle and how the garments will be worn is how we jointly decide on pockets and placement. I can't even imagine a time I would tell a client that they can't have something ~ it would reduce the craft to nothing more than what they could purchase at the closest rtw department store.
"The quality of a person's life is in direct proportion to their commitment to excellence, regardless of their chosen field of endeavor."
~Vince Lombardi

#28 J. Maclochlainn

J. Maclochlainn

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,127 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 January 2011 - 02:04 PM

Pockets and zipper-fly's are the fruit of the devil!
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#29 hymo

hymo

    Apprentice

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 164 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 January 2011 - 12:25 AM

The trick we have to pull off right now is not letting them ask or letting them know such an option does exist. We just tell them what they get when they choose a pocket style.
"Pocket with a button, Sir? You'll get two, for better symmetry! I'm sorry, if you want only one pocket you'll get one without a button"! That's all I can offer!"

Here is the really :crazy: part: Should the customer insist on having only one pocket with a closure (zipper or button) and there is the risk of loosing the order, we are told to note down his wish and we'd add it later in our shop, which means we spend 1,5h work and approximately 45 Euros extra for one pocket. :yahoo:

I don't think the management of your company is as blind or IQ-deficient as you make them sound. It looks like reducing the possible permutations is something that gets them into lower cost territory with the supplier (you call them "partner"). In any case, management probably sees many thing you don't (they stare at the books the whole time, and know exactly how much everything costs, they have access to revenue growth figures, profit margin, cash flow, they know their negotiating power (or lack of it) with their suppliers, etc. You, OTOH, are more acquainted with something else: the customer and the craft of tailoring.

Germany is something of a sartorial wasteland with regards to classic men's dress anyway, and I think the constraints are just too many for excellence to really exist in that environment. Your management is probably doing what it can to put the business in a better position.

Have you seen Regent's armholes? Even their RTW have humongous armholes, where linear algorithms have no chance to cause the armhole to expand with chest measurement like some (your) MTM would. Eeven Uniqlo is better in this regard. Nobody really understands suits in Germany, the trade died out some time ago. The one bespoke tailor I saw in Hamburg isn't even German. His name sounds Hungarian.

#30 jcsprowls

jcsprowls

    Pro

  • Super Pro
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,134 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Roanoke, Virginia

Posted 24 January 2011 - 07:01 AM

Reducing permutations does contain costs.

But (!)

The number of pockets - from an operating perspective - is negligible. Seriously. We're talking about counting gnat's whiskers because the pocket pieces mitigate waste from the trash bin - they're only labor. About 3-5 minutes of labor, actually.

The problem appears to be how this company chooses to cost. This company wants too fine-grained control over costing, which affects policy, which affects the sales staff's ability to satisfy a customer.

The simple matter is: charge for 2 pockets, even if you customer only wants one. If he gripes that he shouldn't pay for 2 pockets - take one off the bill. If the amount of requests for rebates is negligible, then farq'ing with the policy is completely un-necessary.

Bottom line: don't make your business or operating problems your customers' problem.
___________

Dir, Product Development

web: http://www.studio9apparel.com
portfolio: http://www.behance.net/studio9apparel

#31 J. Maclochlainn

J. Maclochlainn

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,127 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 January 2011 - 07:07 AM

Bottom line: don't make your business or operating problems your customers' problem.


Here here!
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#32 Schneidergott

Schneidergott

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,680 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland

Posted 24 January 2011 - 07:59 AM

I don't think the management of your company is as blind or IQ-deficient as you make them sound. It looks like reducing the possible permutations is something that gets them into lower cost territory with the supplier (you call them "partner"). In any case, management probably sees many thing you don't (they stare at the books the whole time, and know exactly how much everything costs, they have access to revenue growth figures, profit margin, cash flow, they know their negotiating power (or lack of it) with their suppliers, etc. You, OTOH, are more acquainted with something else: the customer and the craft of tailoring.Germany is something of a sartorial wasteland with regards to classic men's dress anyway, and I think the constraints are just too many for excellence to really exist in that environment. Your management is probably doing what it can to put the business in a better position.Have you seen Regent's armholes? Even their RTW have humongous armholes, where linear algorithms have no chance to cause the armhole to expand with chest measurement like some (your) MTM would. Eeven Uniqlo is better in this regard. Nobody really understands suits in Germany, the trade died out some time ago. The one bespoke tailor I saw in Hamburg isn't even German. His name sounds Hungarian.


No need to look at the books, our MTM has hardly ever been profitable. We are more of a publicity stunt, just existing for image reasons.
Lately (the last 6 years, to be precise) the amount of orders has dramatically declined, which was caused by ill fitting and/ or poorly manufactured suits, cheaply made fabrics with distortions or more weaving flaws per metre than a toad has warts.
Last season we ran out of the fabric for the special offer in the middle of the season, which does testify the degree of incompetence we tailors have to live with on a daily basis (wasn't actually the first time that happened)!


Reducing permutations does contain costs. But (!)The number of pockets - from an operating perspective - is negligible. Seriously. We're talking about counting gnat's whiskers because the pocket pieces mitigate waste from the trash bin - they're only labor. About 3-5 minutes of labor, actually.The problem appears to be how this company chooses to cost. This company wants too fine-grained control over costing, which affects policy, which affects the sales staff's ability to satisfy a customer.The simple matter is: charge for 2 pockets, even if you customer only wants one. If he gripes that he shouldn't pay for 2 pockets - take one off the bill. If the amount of requests for rebates is negligible, then farq'ing with the policy is completely un-necessary.Bottom line: don't make your business or operating problems your customers' problem.


The change of options was caused by people who clearly misinterpreted statistics.
You see, we did sell quite a few double pocket pairs of trousers, but they had zippers in them. The most requested version was 1 pocket with button and loop closure.
Even though we do not charge extra for the second pocket, I don't see the point of forcing a second one upon the customer. We have quite a few established customers who will automatically get 2 pockets, whether they want them or not, causing complaints and lots of wasted time on the phone, not to mention possible re-makes of trousers and pissed off customers.

In addition to reduced choice, the selling and measuring process has been lengthened by a new concept which now includes trying on an entire suit in the nearest size of the customer (rather than only putting on a coat that resembled a first fitting).

As usual, any concept has some flaws. With this one we put on a coat, vest and trousers and pin them according to the customers body. Basically, nothing wrong with that. But there are limits to the maximum changes in width and length. So let's say the customer has a belly and is relatively tall, which is a scenario quite common in the North of Germany. Because the vests for a corpulent figure are rather short we won't be able to use them as a reference. Instead we are forced to use sizes, which do not provide sufficient front length and width across the belly.

The entire re-launch of our MTM is basically saddling up the same old and lame horse in another way.
So we are literally heading towards disaster, and guess who will be blamed in the end? The tailors! No wonder the trade is dying!

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#33 jcsprowls

jcsprowls

    Pro

  • Super Pro
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,134 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Roanoke, Virginia

Posted 24 January 2011 - 10:24 AM

I didn't say anything about forcing the customer to do anything. I said that if your management is trying to pinch pennies they're going about it the wrong way.

I'm so much an advocate for the customer that I opened my own shop - nobody did it "right" in my opinion.
___________

Dir, Product Development

web: http://www.studio9apparel.com
portfolio: http://www.behance.net/studio9apparel

#34 culverwood

culverwood

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 80 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London

Posted 24 January 2011 - 10:20 PM

No! Your masteminds are nuts.

#35 Schneidergott

Schneidergott

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,680 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland

Posted 25 January 2011 - 02:49 AM

No! Your masteminds are nuts.

I'll let them know!

BTW, the money they try to save by restricting the details is spent on advertising. Our "Berater" (hard to translate: advisor, counsellor...) has gotten a new layout, but instead of fabric samples they now show pictures of them. :clapping:
So perhaps I should add the question: Would you buy a suit without having seen or felt the fabric for real? I know I wouldn't...

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#36 J. Maclochlainn

J. Maclochlainn

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,127 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 25 January 2011 - 03:31 AM

Would you buy a suit without having seen or felt the fabric for real?


Only my funeral suit.
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users