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The Rundschau System for Lounge Coats


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#1 Sator

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 06:26 PM

The translation of the Rundschau system shown here derives from Zuschnitt XVI dating from circa 1959. The Rundschau system has evolved significantly since that time, and those who wish to use the modern version will need to purchase it from the Müller and Sons website. If you found this draft to be useful, it is strongly recommended that you subscribe to Rundschau as it is the last classic tailoring journal still in print. This thread should help you follow most Rundschau drafts even if you do not read German well.

Information on subscribing to Rundschau can be found here:

http://www.cutterand...p?showtopic=541

You can also purchase their books and DVDs on cutting and tailoring from their online store:

http://www.muellerso...en/shop/shop,1/

The current book on cutting men's coats can be purchased here:

http://www.muellerso...truktionen,782/

It is only available in German. No English translation is available. However, if you absorb the content of this thread fully, you should be able to follow it without being able to read the text. These books tend to be available only for a limited time. A second companion to this first volume is expected at any time.

They also have a CAD version of their modern system, although this is more for industry cutters. Unfortunately, none of the men's cutting books are in English, although they do offer an English version of their women's cutting book. However, once you are familiar with their system you may be able to follow the drafts without being able to read German. For a thread on how to read Rundschau drafts without by just looking at the diagrams please see this detailed thread. You will be able to apply this to the latest patterns printed in the journal.

Those of you interested in the 1960s version of the ladies' Rundschau system should see this thread. This thread also contains detailed information on how to take a whole series of supplementary measures and how to use them as check measures alongside the calculated proportionate measures.

A list of abbreviations and variations of them you find:

Kg (or Kh) = height
Ow (or Bu) = chest
Tw (or Tu) = waist
Gw (or Hu) = hip or seat girth
Hs (sometimes Sp, RSB or RS) = back neck
At = depth of scye at back
Rl = waist length
Gt (or Ht) = depth of hip/seat
Lg (sometimes L) = length
Bt = Depth of chest or front depth of scye, sometimes called the "front shoulder measure" in English
Rb = width of back
Ad = armscye width or diameter
Bb (or B) = width of chest/bust
Bau (sometimes Lv, or U) = front width of waist
Äu = sleeve crown circumference
Äh = sleeve crown height
h. = half ("halb" in German) eg "h. Kg" means "1/2 the height"

fertige Nahte/Nähte = finished seam ie drafted nett, with no seam allowances and not to be enlarged by a seam allowance when sewing




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Back Panel

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1. Start by drafting a vertical line down from point W.

2. Mark Rh, T , G and L (depth of scye, waist length, depth of seat, and total length)

3. m is ½ from W to Rh.

4. G is 1/8 of Kg down from T.

5. Draw perpendicular lines to the left from each of the above points

6. h to W is your back neck measure.

7. Go up vertically 2.5cm to find point H

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8. g to G1 is 4cm.

9. Draw line from m to G1, marking R on the scye line and t on the waist line.

10. t to T1 is 1cm.

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11. From R measure Rb (width of back) to the left.

12. Square up perpendicularly from Rb to b to the neck line.

13. Divide Rb to b into quarters. Mark the first ¼ as s.

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14. The distance of b to a1 is 2cm

15. Draw line from H through a1, and extend another 2cm to a2

16. G1 to G2 is your back width – 2cm.

17. Draw line connecting a2 and G2, creating S and t1.

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18. t1 to T2 is 1,5cm.

19. Connect S with T2,G2 and L2 (on the line from L in the back).

20. Place the L-square connecting G1 and L2, creating a right angle at L1.

21. Draw curved line to the point 3/4 cm inwards from S.

The back panel is now complete.

Front Panel and Side Panel

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1. Extend the lines from the back further to the left, leaving an amount of space between them (around 7.5-10cm).

2. Square down from point D to find the points t2 and G4.

3. Measure Ad (armscye width) +2cm to find point At.

4. Square up and down from At creating points Ad (back scye depth +2cm), H and G3.

5. At to B is your front chest width

6. H to U is ¼ of Uw

7. Square down from U down to find G5

8. e is ½ At

9. f is ½ way from U to H

10. e1 is found 0.5cm to the right of e

11. Draw line f through e1

12. Square out to the left of Ad to find point H1.

13. H1 to H2 is the width of back neck (Hs)

14. Square out to the right H2 a distance of Hs + 2cm to find point H3

15. Connect H3, B, U and G5 to get your centre front

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16. Ad to A1 is 3.5cm

17. At to c is 6cm

18. H1 to A2 is equal to H –a2 minus 1cm

19. Connect A2 and c.

20. H to h is 1cm

21. Square down from At to h and then from At up along the line up to D.

22. Measure length of Rb to s on the back, and add that length to point D to create S1

23. From S1 go 0.75cm (seam allowance) to the left

24. Shape the armhole connecting A2, c and S1

25. t2 to t3 is 1cm

26. t3 to U is your waistline.

27. T3 to t3 is 1,5cm

28. T3 to L3 is equal to T2 to L2. Apply that length plus 1.5cm from U to L4. Connect L4 and L3.

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29. H to Ta is 7.5cm for the depth of the side pocket. From there 6cm towards the back to find point b. From b it is 18cm towards the front, with the pocket line being 8.5cm below f.

30. At to a is 3,5cm

31. Ta to b is 3,5cm

32. a to a1 is 2cm

33. Connect a with b, and continue the line down to the hemline.

34. Draw line from a1 to find a point 6-7cm below the pocket. From this point add waist suppression by measuring in 1/2cm from each line inwards of the waistline (see diagram 47). Then shape the side seam by connecting a and a1 with those points, and from there slight curve down to the point below the pocket.

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35. Centre of front dart is 2cm from f, depth is 1.5cm. Shape as shown.

36. At to F is ¼ scye width minus 0.5cm.

37. Add 1.5cm to the centre front seam edge for the overlap

38. Chest welt pocket is on a line 3cm below B to At.

39. Remove 1.5cm(front dart depth) on line from b to Ta, curve from that new point down.

A seam allowance of 0.75cm is allowed for throughout, except on the front edge, centre back, neck hole, front dart and hem.

One issue I have noticed with the Rundschau system of this era is that the shoulder seam is a tiny bit slanted backwards on the bias. This is likely a relic from older version of the system, in which the seam was even more on the bias. I find it best to complete the pattern according to the above system, and then advance the back shoulder seam forward by 1.5-2cm or until it runs down the middle of the shoulder. The back neck will also have to be widened by 1-1.5cm (and the collar seam of foreparts reduced by the corresponding amount).

As it stands the above Rundschau draft will give you an approximately 7.8cm back neck, which is similar to the 3" back neck found in Edwardian era Cutter's Practical Guide systems. The modern back neck is typically wider than the narrower back neck of the 1950-60s, and results in a cleaner shoulder, as well as more forward pitch of the shoulder-armscye.

The Rundschau system from circa 1960 for cutting collars can be found in this thread.

The corresponding Rundschau sleeve system from this era can be found pinned in this forum.


Those interested in the Rundschau System for body coats see this thread

It contains information on cutting morning coats, dress coats and frock coats.


BTW I would also like to say thank you to Schneidergott, on whose translation I based the above translation of the lounge coat system!

#2 Sator

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 11:05 PM

The 1966 Rundschau System for Lounge Coats

The following is a 1966 version of the Rundschau lounge system. The sixties saw the Rundschau cutting system being further refined. In this edition of Rundschau from May, 1966, two different cuts are presented. The first is a Classic Button-Three Lounge Coat. The second draft is for a more fitted style of lounge coat for a younger figure.

A Fashionable Cut in a Classical Style

The cut has no excess drape but is yet easy enough to permit a wallet to be carried. There is clearly visible waist suppression, with subtle flare of the skirt, with a fashionable shoulder line. The buttoning is that of a modestly high button-three. The side pocket are cut a touch high with the bottom button set at the level of the pockets. The foreparts are cut-away. The lapels are narrow and the collar cut fairly short. The narrow shoulders are supported by a vertical run of the underarm seam. The is moderate drape (2.5cm) at the back to give comfort through ease, and again there is a bit of flare of the skirt. The centre back vent is relatively long.

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The standard Rundschau table is used. However, there are a number of minor changes compared to the previously posted version, which I have added to the following table for the 1966 model:

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A comparison with the earlier version will show a number of changes. Note that instead of Uw they say Tw, and instead of Bau they say Lv. However, they mean exactly the same thing.

These proportionate calculated values can be modified according to the needs of the figure and design.

The draft is as follows:

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"1/10 h Kg" means 1/10th of half of Kg (height).

The Coat Length

The length is a little longer. This is calculated in the following way:

Length = (1/2 Kg - 1/16 Kg) + 1 cm

Eg Kg height = 176 cm
1/2 - 1/4 - 1/8 - 1/16 Kg = 88 - 44 - 22 - 11 cm
Subtract 11 cm = 77 cm
Standard coat length = 77
Fashionable coat = 77 + 1 cm

The formula works for all sizes. It is however a bit complex. The usual formula of length = 1/2 Kg - 10 cm is easier. For unusually large sizes it is essential to do the calculations the long way.

The Front Depth of Scye (Front Shoulder) and the Position of the Front Neckpoint

The front depth of scye is calculated as Rh + 2.5 cm. This gives the foreparts the necessary length.

A gorge dart has been placed at the neck. To find the shoulder seam, take half the width of chest and displace the neckpoint a half cm backwards. When the gorge dart is closed the neckpoint will return to its correct position.

Waist Suppression at the Underarm Seams

We have just emerged out of a period in fashion where a very easy cut of lounge coat was popular with little waist suppression. For this style a relatively short underarm seam was necessary. This was achieved by a large removal of width at the underarm seam. In those days, 2 cm was removed and the side body was work up into an angle by the iron, which only served to increase the amount that was being removed at the underarm seam.

By contrast, the modern lounge coat has more clearly defined waist suppression, as well as more flare at the skirt. Greater waist suppression necessitates more length in the underarm seam. That means that much less has to be taken out at the underarm seam. In this case, only 1 cm has been taken out there. Even less, or none at all can be taken out if more pronounced waist suppression is desired.

Balance Measures

For this draft they discuss balance measures. For this you need to extend construction lines horizontally at the chest and waist levels using the square. To examine the front-back vertical balance measures compare:

(1) length of neckpoint of foreparts to waistline
(2) length of neckpoint of back to waistline

The difference between these two measures should be such that (1) is 1cm shorter than 2. The front balance is 1 cm longer than the back.

In this example (1) = 46 cm and (2) = 47 cm.

They say that for all of their drafts this balance measure is built into the system. It also allows for the elongation of the foreparts through the stretching of the neck seam, which also makes the neck point lie more crooked. With cloths that do not permit of much stretching an additional length must be given to the front balance measure at the neck point of 0.5-1cm, as shown in the following diagram:

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"Dehnen" means "stretch". Schoßlg and Schl are both abbreviations meaning skirt length. So pocket height is 1/4 skirt length minus 0.5cm Taschenhöhe means pocket height. Übertragen means to carry over the measures from above, as indicated by the arrows. The instruction 0,5 abkneifen means to pinch the draft here by 0.5cm.

Here is the completed draft:

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The 'd' in Ad has not printed properly and it looks like "Au". "Bb vorlegen" means "apply chest measure here". "Fertige Nähte" means completed seams.

The final paper pattern is cut to give more waist suppression and chest effect. The overpocket section is allow to swivel out by 2-2.5cm. This will crooken the cut and throw a little extra length to the front. To compensate a cut is made in the back to increase the back balance by 1/4 cm. A cut running from the front of side pocket down to the hem is pinched off by 0.5cm to open up a wedge at the pocket. This amount should be kept to a minimum as otherwise it will start to interfere with the waist suppression.

The Fashionable Lounge Coat for a Younger Figure

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The measurements are the same as before.

However, the following changes are made to the draft:

1. Depth of scye and length of waist both reduced by 0.5cm
2. The coat length is increased by 0.5cm
3. The width of chest is reduced by 0.5cm
4. The front waist width is reduced by 0.5cm
5. The lower width of back is increased by 0.5cm
6. The waist suppression is increased
7. The underarm seam of the forepart is displaced out
8. The fashion waist of forepart is elevated by 1cm
9. Nothing is removed out of the top of the underarm seam
10. The gorge dart is eliminated
11. There is reduce flare of the skirt
12. The shoulder seam construction line runs over the centre of chest

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The Gorge Seam

The reason for eliminating this is as follows and has nothing to do with age. It is only necessary for a prominent chested figure. For a normal or a flat chested figure it is not necessary. When the cloth has stripes in it, it is particularly important to avoid the gorge dart as this makes the stripes run more on the bias at the front shoulder, and it is important to avoid crookening the neckpoint with the gorge dart to preserve the straightness in the cut.

The Side Body

The higher armscye makes the underarm seam longer and enhances the elongating effect of the fashionable cut. The front edge of the side body at the underarm seam is kept straight. It should not be allowed to angle forwards, as often is seen. If this is allowed to happen the lower section of the side body will sit to far forwards or the back part of the side body will be too long. Both look equally bad.


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From the front the enhanced waist suppression on the coat is clearly visible. The chest pocket is a little higher as well as smaller and narrower. The angled side pockets make them look even higher, and complement the longer, slimmer skirt. The front dart should not be placed too far back so that the pocket flaps don't lie too far back.

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A shoulder support is placed at the shoulder seam:

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The neck and shoulder areas after the ironwork:

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The back neck is also given some extra support:

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The original text in full is as follows:

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#3 Sator

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 08:24 AM

From Rundschau, March 1969

The Fashionable Slim Cut Lounge Coat


Principle Measures

Kg 174 cm
Ow 96 cm
Tw 86 cm
Gw 100 cm

Proportionate Measures

Hs 7.8 cm = 1/10th half Ow + 3 cm
Rh 22 cm = 1/116 Kg + 1/8 Ow minus 0.5 cm
Tl 43.5 cm = 1/4 Kg
Lg 78 cm = 1/2 Kg minus 9 cm
Rb 21.2 cm = up to Ow of 100 cm : 2/10 Ow + 2 cm

over 100cm Ow : 1/10 Ow + 12 cm

At 24.5 cm = Depth of Scye + 2 cm ease
Ad 15.5 cm = 1/8 Ow + 3.5-4 cm ease
B 21.7 cm = 2/10 Ow + 2.5 cm ease
U 22 cm = 1/4 waist + 0.5 cm ease

The draft is as follows:

1. Width of Back
Is the effective width of back placed R-Rb. Rb is at the same depth as the depth of scye.

2. The Side Body Separated Off
Previously, the side body was drafted so that its seams overlapped with that of the forepart from side pocket level downwards, creating some difficulties. The side body is now drafted with a separation of 2-3cm from the forepart so that the side body can be easily cut out.

3. The Proofing of the Measurements

Proofing the measurments is made easier, especially for chest measures. Just add up the widths of back, armscye diameter and width of chest and then subtract the seam allowances (2 x 1.5 cm, each seam being 0.75cm) and extra gaps. This yields the half chest measure plus the chest ease, which can be further adjusted to taste.

The measure at the waist and seat can similarly be proofed by adding the widths of back, side body and back together, less the seam allowances, then comparing them to the body surface measurements.

The improvement in the ease and clarity should win over every experienced cutter.

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The Back

W/b/L foundation square
W-h back neck = 7.8 cm
h-H = displace upward by 2 1/4cm
W-H complete back neck
W-m = 1/2 depth of scye
W-Rh depth of scye = 22.5 cm
W-T = length of waist = 43.5 cm
W-L = length of coat = 78 cm
T-G = Depth of seat = 1/8 Kg

Square out from Rh, T, G, L
G-G1 displace in by 4 c
G1-m construction line to find point t
t-T1 waist suppression = 1 1/4 cm
T1-G1 centre seam to hem
T1/m/W centre seam to top
R-Rb width of back = 21.2 cm
Rb- square vertically upwards to find point b
b-a1 height shoulders seam = 2 cm
H-a1 draw construction line
a1-a2 width of shoulder seam = 1cm
H- displace up by 1/2 cm
H-a2 complete shoulder seam
Rb-s = 1/4 depth of scye
s- square out
G1-g width of seat = the distance of R-Rb minus 3.5 cm
g-Rb draw construction line and form t1
t-T2 waist suppression = 1 3/4 cm (somewhat increased)
g-G2 widened by about 1/2 cm
T2-G2 extend side seam downwards
Rb-r displace seam 1 cm
T2-r displace seam as per diagram
S- 3/4 cm wide 'step' for seam allowance. Draw side seam
a2-S complete back of armscye
L1-L2 length in the square

The Forepart

Ad-G3 foundation square
Ad-At front depth of armscye = 24.5 cm
Due to the displacement of the back neck point at H by 0.5 cm. The front depth of scye is calculated by adding only 2cm to the back depth of scye.
At-H carry over length of waist seam from back panel
H-G3 carry over depth of seat from back panel
At- square out to form chest construction line
H- square out to form seat construction line
H-h displace out 1cm to form angled construction line
h-At place square here to find D
At-B width of chest = 21.7 cm
H-U front waist width = 22cm
e- the half of At-B
f- the half of H-U
f-e construction line for the neckpoint
f-e place square here and square out towards the neckpoint. Also square out to the neckpoint from Ad to find the neckpoint, H1
H1-H2 = Back neck = 7.8 cm
H2- square out
H2-H3 = back neck + 2 cm
H1=H3 complete gorge seam
H3/B/U drawn centre front
U- square down to bottom
Ad-A1 height shoulder seam = 4 cm
H1-A1 draw construction line
H1-H2 = width of back shoulder seam minus 1 cm
H1-A2 complete shoulder seam
At-e construction point = 1/4 depth of scye or ca. 5.5 cm. Construction line to A2


Height of Side Pockets

H-Ta = 1/10 half height - 2.5 cm
(All dependent on height, and proportions)
= ca. 6 cm, 1 cm more at the front. Draw pocket line

Front Dart

f- = set back ca. 2cm (for proportionate figures)
Draw vertical construction line parallel to the centre front line (from waist line downwards due to the run of stripes)
Remove 1.5 cm at waist level and 1 cm from dart at pocket level

Pocket Position

Go forward 1.5 cm from the front dart.
From front of pocket the total width of side pocket + 1 cm front dart + 2 cm separation + 1.5 cm underarm seam allowances = 20 cm total at te back of the pocket

The Separation

At-a = 3.5 cm apart
Ta-b = 2.5 cm aprt
G3-g1 = 2.5 cm aprt
a-a1 = 2cm gap
b-b1 = 2 cm gap
g1-g2 = 2cm
a/b/g1 = construction line downward
a1/b1/g2 = construction line downward

Waist Suppression at Underarm Seam

b- widen by about 1/4 cm. This makes room for the 1 cm waist suppression at front dart
L7- = widen by about 1 cm
a/b/L7 complete underarm seam as per diagram

Width of Armscye:

At-a = 3.5 cm
Total width of armscye = (At-a) + (a2-D) = armscye width - 1 cm (less 1 cm for the 1 cm seam displacement from r-Rb) = 14.5 cm

Underarm Seam:

G3-G4 = At-D + 2 cm
D-G4 = underarm seam construction line
G4- seat line
G3-G5 = width of chest At-B

G5- place distance of width of seat of back panel, G1-G2, here
G4- ...=1/2 Gw + 7 cm + 2 cm separation
t2-T3 waist suppression = 1 3/4 cm
T3-G4 underarm seam towards the bottom
T3-D underarm seam upwards
D-S1 = same as distance at side point from r-S
D-L3 same length as per the back panel
A2-S1 armscye as per diagram
At-F sleeve pitch mark = 1/4 armscye width minus 1 cm
U-L4 front length = distance of t2-L3 + 1.5 cm
L3-L4 draw lower seam edge

0.75 cm seams have been allowed for, except at the centre back seam, the collar seam (back neck and gorge), the front and lower edges as well as the front dart.

The Final Preparation of the Front Panels

To attain greater fullness of chest, the pattern is cut in the following manner, which must be shrunk in by ironwork. It is easier to perform this pattern manipulation at the end.

The cuts are opened up a maximum of 1 cm.

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The Sleeve

Measure the length of a2 to Rb on the back panel.
Determine length along the forepart of A2-At. These two lengths together form the height of shoulder seam.

The armscye circumference is measured without seam allowances.

The crown height from A to D:

Front + back shoulder seam height = 40 cm
half of this = 20 cm
1/10 half shoulder seam height + 2 cm = 4 cm
Crown height = 20 - 4 = 16 cm

The width of armscye from F to B:

Armscye circumference = 46 cm
The half of this = 23 cm
Added ease = 1.5 cm
Armscye width = 24.5 cm

The Top Sleeve and Under Sleeve

A/B/L2 Foundation square
A-D crown height = 16 cm
A-L = crown-sleeve length
L-L1 forearm length = 1.5 cm
L-L2 hindarm length = 1.5 cm
D-E level of elbow = 1/2 forearm length D-L1 minus 1 cm
D/E/L2 square out horizontally
D-F = 1/4 armscye width minus 2 cm
F-B sleeve width on an angle = 24.5 cm
K- the half of A-B
a- the half of A-K
K-a1 = 1/2 of K-B
K-B square vertically to form M below
B-C = 1/4 armscye diameter
C-a1 draw construction line
F-a draw construction line, the centre of which finds point a2
M-a = displace 2.5 cm
m-B draw construction line
C- square out to find e
c-c1 displace by 2 cm
c1-F draw construction line as per diagram
c1- add step with seam allowance of 0.75 cm
E-e middle of front = 1.5 cm
D/e/L1 forearm seam of under sleeve is displaced backward by 1 cm
D/e/L1 forearm seam of top sleeve is allowed to overlap the undersleeve by 2.5 cm
L1-L3 = width of cuff + seam allowance
e-e1 = displace by 1 cm
e1-e2 = displace inward by 1 cm
e1-L3 draw construction line
c1-e1 draw construction line
c1/c2/L3 elbow seam of under sleeve as per diagram
C-c2 seam displacement of 2 cm
c2- seam allowance of 3/4cm. Drawn construction line to e1
c2/e1/L3 elbow seam of top sleeve per diagram
d- displace back the seam width in the forearm sleeve by 3/4 cm. Draw in continuation of seam with dashed line to form point d at the point of cross over
d- place square here. Extend construction line toward the front to find point d1
d1- Place back by a seam allowance
c2/K/d1 complete of sleeve crown as per diagram

Original Full Text:

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#4 jcsprowls

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 03:08 PM

The next issue I have noticed with the Rundschau system is that the shoulder seam is a tiny bit slanted backwards. I find it best to complete the pattern according to the above system, and then move the outer tip of the shoulder seam a bit forward by 2cm or until it runs down the middle of the shoulder.


Agreed in principle. It's better IMO to complete the draft using whatever system you prefer, then slice into the 1st pattern in order to make adjustments for posture, dart manipulation or seam placement before transferring to oaktag.

I say this because you need to notice a pattern for how well the system works for you (the 80/20 principle) and how to codify changes to make it your own.

I happen to like the shoulder seam diminishing to the back. But, I have no sound argument why it can't be adjusted to the center of the shoulder. Of course, if you cut a wide seam allowance on the shoulder seam, you have the option to change the seam placement during the baste fitting.

RE: back neck. It could also depend on the style. If cutting a drapi-er style, I use a formula of 1/6 neckline + 5/8" as opposed to a cleaner, English cut of 1/6 neckline + 1/4". Running twill tape around the neckline can shrink/reduce the neckline to accept the undercollar, which also creates room for a rounded upper back, slightly broader shoulders or just a well-distributed drape across the back panels.
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#5 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 09:18 AM

In the first example the arm scye is ok.
I measured it with 17cm - 2cm = 15cm which is for a a chest girth of 96cm.

Chest width: 1/8 Chest girth - 1.0cm = 23.0cm
Armscye width: 1/8 Chest girth + 3.0cm = 15.0cm
Back width: 1/5 Chest girth + 1.5cm = 21.7cm
Altogeher: 1/2 x 96.0cm + 11.7cm = 59.7cm


The scye only looks big, cause of the side dart...

I scaled the pic in photoshop and measured it.

Edited by Der Zuschneider, 24 November 2009 - 09:58 AM.

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#6 greger

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 12:40 PM

Some proportant systems work for certain sizes. Like a 36 inch chest will give a armhole depth of so much. But, a person with a 56 inche chest the proportant systems mehtod does not work creating a deep armhole, way to far down and maybe way to wide. Some systems work great, but you need to know when to depart it and use another system or a side system to depart where errors would be made. Poulins book has a chart for the different sizes of chest, but a steep shouldered or flat shouldered person may need a different height. Measureing on the person maybe the best method. There are several ways to do this. One method is to push to rullers up into the armpit as high as comfortable and then put a yard stick across the top, then measure from nape to bottom of yard stick. The proportant system could put the armhole down to the waist on a short person with a 50 inch chest, which would be a cutting diasaster. Seeing with the eyes what a person is can be far more important than the numbers from a tape measure. Good cutters develop good judgement.
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#7 posaune

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 10:47 PM

I have a question: e1 = e -0.5 cm. e1 makes the neck more crooked. How much can you subtract for a figure which much flesh over the bust and a belly?
I subtracted 0.75 cm and opened the front with 1 cm. But still the pattern is not balanced. So should I open it more, should I subtract 1 cm from point e, or it is better to add at the Neck-Shoulder-Point, like it is shown here?

LG
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#8 Schneidergott

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 12:21 AM

I have a question: e1 = e -0.5 cm. e1 makes the neck more crooked. How much can you subtract for a figure which much flesh over the bust and a belly?
I subtracted 0.75 cm and opened the front with 1 cm. But still the pattern is not balanced. So should I open it more, should I subtract 1 cm from point e, or it is better to add at the Neck-Shoulder-Point, like it is shown here?

LG
posaune



Strong chest and belly is a nasty combination to deal with.
I would suggest you start with one of the belly drafts (depending on the size of the belly) and add fullness to the chest later by opening the pattern on the Brustbreite line.
That draft and manipulation is shown in the Rundschau book starting on page 23 of the pdf (which is page 24 of the book)!
Point f in the belly draft is a bit more forward, so by using the original point e1 the neckpoint will be more crooked.

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
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#9 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 12:07 AM

The discussion focuses on the underarm seam. They say that they are coming out of a period where lounge coats were cut wide and with little waist suppression. The side seam was according rather short. They used to take 2cm out of sideseam at the armscye (you will see this in the earlier draft show as 'minus 2' with the minus sign being like a % sign, except with full stops in the sign) and stretch the side seam on making up.

For the more modern cut more length is need in the side seam. In the 1966 they take out only 1cm from the armscye area. If more waist suppression is required this can eliminated altogether.


I just was reading it again, a very important topic. The line had changed massively and in the GDR the line was also changed in DSHW.
Now you need to fully understand what that means having short and long side arm seams and the influence of the wedge hereby.
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#10 Nishijin

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 10:14 PM

I've decided to give a serious try to Rundschau, for a change, and used if for several projects.
The system is good (actually, I had already incorporated several ideas from it to my own practice), but I always get coats with a lot of ease. I mean a lot (roughly twice what I usually put). There is no problem to correct that at fitting, the draft give a very easy to fit coat. But I wonder if I misunderstood something or if it is normal to get that much ease.

If I understand correctly the story about long/short side seams, it seems normal... I'll have to change the formula if it is the case.
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#11 Schneidergott

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 11:09 PM

I've decided to give a serious try to Rundschau, for a change, and used if for several projects.
The system is good (actually, I had already incorporated several ideas from it to my own practice), but I always get coats with a lot of ease. I mean a lot (roughly twice what I usually put). There is no problem to correct that at fitting, the draft give a very easy to fit coat. But I wonder if I misunderstood something or if it is normal to get that much ease.

If I understand correctly the story about long/short side seams, it seems normal... I'll have to change the formula if it is the case.



You can adjust the ease of a Rundschau coat to your likes by simply adding less to the different formulas.
As we found out, the RS coat has quite a wide scye, so instead of adding 3-4cm to the body measurement (or the 1/8 chest) you could use 2-3cm.
Same with the chest width formula. All the other construction points will follow.

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#12 Nishijin

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 01:02 AM

Thanks, SG. That is precisely what I've started to do, and this is what I like best in Rundschau : the way it is so easy to manage precisely where we put ease, and how much. Other systems can do it all rigth, but I find Rundschau more clear for this matter.

I loved getting in depth with it after reading Ostinelli, and find some details that have definitive Ostinelli flavour, as the fact that the base of scye is not horizontal.


And yes, making instructions will be very appreciated :clapping: :frantics:
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#13 perekusini

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 05:39 PM

Hello.

I've faced with the following by draughting the coat:

chest = 93 cm, waist = 79 cm; chest width = chest girth/5 + 3,5 cm = 22,1 cm, front waist = waist girth / 4 = 19,7 cm.

Diag. 43 (Abb. 43)
I can't square down from U, cause the point G5 by placing the chest width from G3 to G5 is 22,1-19,7=2,4 cm lefter than can be by squaring down from U.

Can anybody explain this please?

#14 posaune

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 12:40 AM

If the waist girth is smaller then bust girth
Waistgirth = bustgirth
Lg
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#15 hymo

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 04:36 AM

There is something unclear to me. It appears the line G5, G3 and G4 is overdefined? The points G3 and G4 are givens, whereas G5 is an extension of G3 by the chest width. But what to make of remarks like "Rü.-Gesäßbrt. vorlegen...=...0.5Gw+7.5" and "At-D"?

#16 Schneidergott

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 05:36 AM

There is something unclear to me. It appears the line G5, G3 and G4 is overdefined? The points G3 and G4 are givens, whereas G5 is an extension of G3 by the chest width. But what to make of remarks like "Rü.-Gesäßbrt. vorlegen...=...0.5Gw+7.5" and "At-D"?



The Rücken-Gesäßbreite is the width at the back hip from G1 to G2. So what you do is this:

Posted Image

You measure from G3: To the left it's the back hip width plus the front chest width. To the right it's At to D (scye width).
The whole distance should be the 1/2 body hip width of the customer plus 7,5 cm for ease and 4 seams (with the ease being 4,5 cm)

Posted Image

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

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#17 Sator

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 07:17 PM

This thread has been updated! Additions have been made to the 1966 draft in the second post.

#18 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 07:18 PM

is there a post on measuring for this system?
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