176 replies to this topic

[tailleuse]

The Today Show, an American morning program based in New York, had a short piece on bespoke tailoring, pegged to the Royal Wedding.


http://today.msnbc.m...700298#42700298


But I prefer you not to sneeze.

[Sator]

It's funny that some people think that morning dress is British and that Americans wouldn't have a clue about what it is, and would have to have it explained to them. The following photos are all American:

For a start, here is John F Kennedy and his marriage to Jacqueline Bouvier:





This next one comes from the 1960s (unidentified couple):



This the marriage of Babe Paley and Stanley Mortimer in 1940:



Karen Carpenter and Thomas Burris:



So let nobody tell you that it is "traditional" for American grooms to wear "Tuxedos" to weddings in broad daylight, as though they were waiters. What nonsense!

[Nishijin]

And in recent TV shows : Friends, Ross Gellar wedding (OK, the scene is in England...) :

[tailleuse]

And in recent TV shows : Friends, Ross Gellar wedding (OK, the scene is in England...) :

The first examples you gave were "High Society." Its members tend to be anglophiles and/or familiar with British culture (Jos. Kennedy Sr. was the U.S. Ambassador to the Court of St. James). So I'm not surprised that some of them would be pictured wearing morning coats.

Edited by tailleuse, 30 April 2011 - 08:17 AM.

[tailleuse]

What do you think of David Beckham? I read he's wearing custom Ralph Lauren.

[Sator]

Beckham looks good. Better than his wife, actually, whose dress looks too bloated for my tastes, and there is not enough contrast against her man (the man wears dark colours to act as a background for his lady).

[Kerry]

What do you think of David Beckham? I read he's wearing custom Ralph Lauren.

I saw this last night, is that a dart in the skirt extending down to his hip? And a crease following it?

[J. Maclochlainn]

I'm with TT on this one. if that is a hip dart it was poorly executed. Then again, it very well might be a pocket perhaps?

Anyway the worse dress I seen was this one, I had to take a screen shot.



Unfortunately I didn't catch it in time to show all the flaws. But this morning coat shoulders hung over the sleeves like
overhangs, no fit. The waist coat is more of a style that would be more suited to a three piece and hung off this chap like
a potato sack being at least 2-3 sizes to big. He looked more like a little boy walking around in his fathers clothes than
a member of the affluent, gentry or peerage that was represented there.

[greger]

I'm with TT on this one. if that is a hip dart it was poorly executed. Then again, it very well might be a pocket perhaps?

Anyway the worse dress I seen was this one, I had to take a screen shot.



Unfortunately I didn't catch it in time to show all the flaws. But this morning coat shoulders hung over the sleeves like
overhangs, no fit. The waist coat is more of a style that would be more suited to a three piece and hung off this chap like
a potato sack being at least 2-3 sizes to big. He looked more like a little boy walking around in his fathers clothes than
a member of the affluent, gentry or peerage that was represented there.

Not exactly sure what you mean here but, some tailors extend the shoulders on narrow shouldered people to give that first glance that his body proportions are correct. This is nothing new among tailors and has been done for decades. The picture above and his shoulders could have been extended as far as reasonably possible. I've seen further. First impressions really matter. Second impressions are different.

[J. Maclochlainn]

Well screen shots are not the most reliable things on a live feed. You could see how ill
fitting this was when he was outside about to come in. Never the less, prior to this particular
shot in the light he looked quite dishevelled.

Edited by J. Maclochlainn, 30 April 2011 - 06:35 PM.

[Sator]

Here's another common problem that you sometimes see:





I think that Prince Albert of Monaco's morning coat doesn't have enough cutaway and is too bellied. It makes the wearer look bellied too.

The coat would have been a lot more slimming and elongating if you cut away the skirt a bit more:





The main thing is that the lapels and skirt cutaway should form a clear X:



You should avoid a quasi-Y shape:

[J. Maclochlainn]

I am not a fan of these lower waist-seams either, they shorten the wearer.

[NJS]

Are you seriously lauding the Beckhams? They are a pair of humourless and very ignorant prols. He cannot even work out how to wear his gong: wrong side and wrong place and as for that hat (that he did not dare to wear), it looks as though he bought it in a toy shop. Wing collars with morning dress went out with Neville Chamberlain. And what are they doing there anyway? Forty years ago footballers were (quite rightly) paid an artisan's wages and lived in a back-to-back house in Manchester and girls who could not sing did not get jobs singing. the presence of people like this; Elton John and Piers Morgan spoil watching these events for me: they are contemptible miseries and always in our faces. So far as Prince Albert of Monaco is concerned: he is just a fat boy and no coat is going to improve his appearance. He should not eat so much.

Milliband is, of course, The Prol-in-Chief and, apparently, a role model for David Cameron: how to look cheap and nasty and thoroughly common: the better to catch the voters' votes because dead common is what they really like.

Edited by NJS, 30 April 2011 - 11:14 PM.

[Sator]

I am sure you are right NJS. However, it's hard not to overlook the fact that Beckham cuts a good figure in that morning coat. The reason is because of something I have always said about body coats: that they are sporting garments that flatter those with a good, athletic physique. Both dress coats and morning coats were originally riding coats, like hacking jackets. With time garments such as these lose their sporting roots, and become frumpy rental garments worn by overweight, elderly men. In actual fact, the lay of the seams of a body coat is designed to show off the figure, and in this case, as an elite athlete and former English football captain, it does just that. The good thing is that it injects fresh life into the morning coat, and renews its appeal to the younger generation. And that, I regard as a welcome thing.

[NJS]

Fair enough - but I can never get over the fact that this pair have found a novel way in which to boost their income: they charge rich and idiotic strangers £100,000 a time to spend the evening with them. At that point, he could be Cary Grant for the day and I'd still turn away in disgust because the young today regard this buffoon as a role model.

Regardless of the above, we know that there is (basically) a truck driver in the coat and a captain who fluffed penalties and failed to inspire the side more often than I can exactly recall. I remember one crucial penalty shot that he just topped like a five year old and how angry the spectators were for that and I haven't really bothered to watch football since. To have this goon held up as any kind of male icon fills me with incandescent rage. Sorry but there we are. And no one can ever complain that they do not know what I think.

Edited by NJS, 01 May 2011 - 02:14 AM.

[I.Brackley]

Elton John and Piers Morgan spoil watching these events for me: they are contemptible miseries and always in our faces. So far as Prince Albert of Monaco is concerned: he is just a fat boy and no coat is going to improve his appearance. He should not eat so much.

Seeing as the knives are out and sharpened, what do people think of Mr. John's habit?
He's not exactly a trim figure either. His skirt isn't obstructing his lap, the waistline is higher, and it isn't overly long in the tails, something that I feel spoils the look of many of these other examples and works against the garment's sporty pedigree (which is indeed part of its appeal)

[I.Brackley]

William's Irish Guard's uniform (most likely made by Henry Poole)

The Toronto Globe & Mail reported on Friday that it was "fitted by Kashket and Partners".
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/mens-style-at-the-royal-wedding-meaningful-and-classic/article2003876/

Also reported items of interest.

Elton John's dress 'designed' by Richard James (designed, not made?) David Furnish's coat by Henry Poole.
Beckahm's coat reported being from Ralph Lauren.

[greger]

Beckahm's coat reported being from Ralph Lauren.


Wouldn't expect him to know the difference between bespoke and non-bespoke.
But in a few years from now he should know the difference.
Don't believe he comes from the influence that would know the difference.